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Even though a modern server architecture is used, Classic servers won't have the same features that current World of Warcraft does. There won't be cross-realm servers or Looking For Raid and Dungeon Finder automatic party matchmaking. There are still a lot of questions about how the team will tackle it. This endeavor is being undertaken by an entirely separate team at Blizzard from the one working on World of Warcraft and its next expansion.[2]
Nov 15 Looking Forward. So simple fun thread to see how you all think and feel. Name 1 thing you are definitely looking forward to, preferably not the obvious stuff but whatever go wild! I'll start with one. Professions aiding in immersion. Not sure if many noticed this but something I am excited about playing a hunter is the professions and how they aid in immersion for the hunter class so freaking well. All of the secondary profs help hunter immersion. Cooking, Fishing and First Aid all actually fueled the hunter lifestyle. Add in Skinning and Leather Working and it's straight up Hunter RPG.Melaned22 Nov 15
Affliction: Endless Affliction - Your Unstable Affliction deals the same damage as normal, but its duration is increased by 6 sec. Demonology: Nether Ward - Surrounds the caster with a shield that lasts 3 sec, reflecting all harmful spells cast on you. Destruction: Demon Armor - Protects the caster, increasing maximum health by 10% and increases armor by 150%. Warrior
My own experience with the WoW Classic beta in the past few days has reaffirmed my longstanding suspicion that the MMO genre ran out of gas entirely too soon. The motifs of progression, classes, and challenging raid content have successfully disseminated into other genres at this point but these concepts are much more interesting when applied to a dynamic, communal space. I hope that both fans and developers will discover that World of Warcraft Classic has lessons left to teach when it releases on August 27th.

"Challenge is part of it," Birmingham continued. "The world feels dangerous. There are difficult group quests out in the world, elite quests that you can't do by yourself, or you would have to over-level if you wanted to do them by yourself. Where they really push you to find somebody else to help you out, or out level them and come back later, or you can just leave them and go on. You don't have to complete every quest in every zone. You can choose your path through the world. So I think that is exactly the classic gameplay that people are looking for."
15 Nov The ride to war? or Que to war..?? So I am having a hard time accepting this.. But one the best things (for me), was saddle up, and travel to war with my friends in Vanilla. I remember one of the best memories, and one of the most authentic Vanilla and MMO- Feeling, yet one of the most satisfiying moments for me and my friends, was when we first ran off to the battleground vendors, and qued up from there, and farmed the gear from the tokens we got, every time we was hitting a 29, 39,49 and so on. I remember everyday you met new friends, talked to old buddies on the server, small chid chat while you waited untill it was your turn to get into AV/WG/AB. I remember even the awesome moments when you met some on the road, and you all knew where you was going. These was one of the best moments for me. It gave me the Horde/Alliance feelings, and great MMO- feels. Then I remember they planted vendors and quebots in capitals, and the great areas was all empty. IMO it was here it all started with "LFG" and "AFK in SW/Org". Running to a BG is as much important part of classic, as running to dungeons. So, any info about this ?Healors4 15 Nov
Nov 15 5 reasons I'm doubtful of WoW Classic I played WoW from patch 1.4 until Sunwell. And I'm not convinced on Classic. 1. I understand nostalgia for the gameplay, and it was a great game, by I don't get why people would want the old graphics when it looked outdated back then. Someone will level a warrior or rogue at snail pace and those 2004 boring graphics will reinforce his perception that the game is bad because it looks bad. 2. The lack of a second talent tree. This was the most demanded feature and I don't see people sticking with the game without it. 3. This has always been in the game, but weekly resets, I never got it, let people able to reset raids. Maybe have a 2 hours cooldown, but if a guild wants to farm a raid every night, or twice on a sunday, or farm the first 3 bosses of MC, let them. Gearing 40-60 people with weekly resets, in this day and age, good luck. 4. Dungeon finder, not sure people will like that, again bad decision. 5. The graphics, no seriously, this is bad on every level of game design, it just make the game look worse, a straight negative with no benefit.Pekuakami24 Nov 15

Warrior should be a go-to choice for everyone who wants to get into the end game. Protection Warriors in Classic WoW were considered as one of the best tanks, Fury talent build was a great option for DPS while Arms were dominating PvP environment. However, Warriors’ strength relies on the character’s gear, which means that you might need to put some hours into finding the right items for your class. It is also worth mentioning, that Warrior might be one of the hardest classes to level up in World of Warcraft: Classic but rest assured, if you’ll manage to hit the level cap and find suitable gear, Warrior is one of the strongest classes in the game.
This did not just simply come randomly, however. Players have been demanding and asking for World of Warcraft Classic for many years now. And Blizzard has likely learned from companies like Jagex that regained a huge portion of their player-base with the launch of Old School RuneScape, which prior to it had a 2006Scape private server. Similarly, World of Warcraft Classic/Vanilla has been around in the form of private servers for many years now and has been very popular. Even top players and streamers have been known to play on these private servers. The only issue is Blizzard were not the ones profiting from these ventures.
In this form, there is much less wasted space and spells are no longer limited to three effects. But before we can load any database data, we need to transform the old data layout into the new one. This is not limited to spells, as almost every game system (including items, creatures, player characters, spawning, AI, and more) has had its database layout altered over the years. 

15 Nov Everyone will google everything anyway There seems to be this weird consensus among hardcore Classic fans that both leveling and end-game content will be "harder" due to no handholding and aids by Blizzard. People also hope to revive barrens chat because people will "finally be asking for Mankriks wife again". Lets be completely honest. Hardcore Classic players/people coming from Private Servers know all the intrinsic little details by heart by now, while people coming in to "check out" how Vanilla was will simply google everything. Nothing will be new. Nothing will be truly challenging due to lack of knowledge. Your "epic", "months long" journey to 60 of old will take a fraction of the time it took back then, because back then you had no clue about any quest locations. Now you do. Barrens Chat will be nothing but a few people forcibly trying to make Chuck Norris jokes because "thats how it was back then". People might entertain the notion for a while for nostalgias sake, but eventually Barrens Chat will be as barren as your favourite server in BfA right now.Ilathria23 15 Nov
Nov 15 My only complain about Classic... ...Horde doesn't have any nice looking races. In my mind each class has best RPG based race for it. So, I like Gnomes because I feel them Mages. Night Elves - Hunters. Humans - Paladins. On Horde side: Undead - ugly. Trolls - ugly. Orcs... uhh fine as Warriors, but I don't play warriors. Tauren - Warriors or Shaman, again don't play those. Blood Elves! Give me Blood Elves!Vlasta36 Nov 15

14 Nov Classic was hard for casuals I think with all this comparing between difficulty in retail and classic going on, we should just say how it is/ was. Classic was hard for the casuals , while retail is difficult for the hardcore player. With this one sentence we can give both games the credit they deserve , without always having to do low blows against one game.Kappador63 14 Nov

14 Nov A Classic Story Once upon a time, I dinged level 80... I remember it being cold as i was in Northrend. Not to my surprise, I started receiving mail in my inbox. The mail was sent from many of my guild members and non-guild friends on my server. I received Cupcakes, Cakes, Fireworks and even some Beers to congratulate me on reaching max level. I must have receive at least 25 messages all within 15 minutes. The next day my Guild Master suggested that all members of the guild collect Borean Leather to help build my armour. It took us approximately a week to collect and my Armor was complete; I was ready for raiding! As I walked through Stormwind (my main was Alliance at the time.) many people approached me in awe of my achievement and congratulated me on receiving my armour set. These we're people i knew, people that we're always around, they we're people I had made memories with. I made many friends during the golden years of wow, in fact I still talk to many of them via social media today. We created a bond that was based on memories, trust, reliability and friendship. Sadly none of them play the game anymore, and in honesty; i don't think they ever will again..... ------- The above is a true story that wow players will sadly never experience today. ------- Something happened after Cataclysm that started the decline of the world we once knew. To make things clear, It wasn't the fact that the world was now broken. Somehow, Blizzard got the idea that the heart of Warcraft was its story.... The truth is, most of us already knew the story. I myself, had been playing warcraft back in the day on DOS. The RTS version of warcraft was always the best medium to tell the story, while world of warcraft was an opportunity for us to create our own stories, our own legends and legacy’s. ------ In hindsight, it would have been so much better if Blizzard released an RTS alongside it's expansion, this would have given them the opportunity to tell the story while allowing player to live in the same world via WOW. Saying the above, I am truly grateful for classic wow, however I think they've missed the mark. Firstly, it baffles me that people believe vanilla wow players do not want better graphic or animations. Vanilla player always welcomed a better-looking game as we regularly upgraded our hardware for it. I truly believe this is because (New) Blizzard have no idea what the actual heart of wow is anymore. Assuming it's aesthetics and possibly the nostalgia from start zones, the music etc.... This is far from the truth... ------ The heart of Vanilla wow is within the story above, and it hurts me to accept and admit this but the truth is, the heart of wow is dying because (New) Blizzard have lost sight of it. Yes, vanilla wow was a pain in the backside, but that's what made it great. Walking for 30 minutes with a group of 40 members to a raid was a priceless experience. The fact that you know every member of the party, and every member was important to the group as a whole, including yourself, where every member was valued; some more than others, but valued none the less. ------ In its current state, levelling has become a chore, while the end game has become a marathon, with a bunch of non-sense thrown in between that you'll most likely solo as you can't progress without them. ------ (New) Blizzard, we've given you our support and time from day one... I've deleted my account once, and I’m reaching that point again.... Please start listening, before you lose the last of us! Take care...Taurnimator0 14 Nov
15 Nov Everything wrong in Demo - listed Dont worry cuz its just a demo. We only saw 4 levels and 2 zones. LOL. General Issues -Items with random attributes show stats from newer expansions (Ex. Critical strike rating) (items rarely had crit or hit rating, and it was always in % example ) - Damage number fonts and size is from WoD, the original was from Vanilla->MoP (The position of the damage as well as the "pop" of crits is different aswell. Also, the CT was changed slightly even during MOP. In MOP the crits were still "poppy", but they always showed up in a uniform line) - Sharding (they have already made a statement about sharding. But i still note it here) - Example of sharding problems - https://clips.twitch.tv/ChillyCrunchyBunnyPermaSmug - You can use meeting stones to summon people (added in tbc Patch 2.0.1 Source ) - You cant jump in water, you rise/swim when pressing space - Mob packs (ex. the defias camps on the mountain in Westfall) seems to be linked, so you cant pull 1 and run back, all 3 will follow forever, if 1 drops aggro they all reset (Not sure if this is blizzlike or not, Blizz would have to check the referance 1.12 client) The way you kite mobs in classic does not work in the demo, Probably a problem with the mob AI? - Cant abuse the walking animation to get a "moonwalk" Animation (would be sad to leave out such an iconic thing from the old engine) - Wand attacks cause you to face the target - You can use bnet to whisper members of the enemy faction - Might still be some problems where mobs spawn/error between the db/world. Reports of mobs spawning under the map - Mobs fanning is implemented incorrectly, they are walking backwards instead of turning around to adjust positions. - After using a flight path I was flagged as "player vs all" (like in gurubashi arena) and was able to attack players with the same bug - The graveyard at moonbrook, westfall doesn't have vultures. It should. - Rare mobs deals way less damage then they used too (hit like 25 some of them) - Chests has less green drops then they used too (40% of the time currently) - Spell Batching is not implemented because of the post cata engine. Big impact on PvP. - Kobolds at the Jangolode Mine in West fall, when low health and running away from you, run at much faster speed than even normal walking. They should walk away. - defias mobs in Jangolode mine (maybe other mobs as well?) Don't run back and attack again if they are low health and start running away from you. I think they should start attacking you again after ~8 seconds or so of running away - Corpses seem to despawn very quickly. I can kill a mob, loot it, and turn away and it'll be gone within 10 seconds. - Mobs sometimes spawn underneath terrain and glitch/evade--for example, hyenas sometimes spawned underneath hills near Centaur camps, and the Sludge Beast rare spawn near the Venture Co. tower in the Barrens would be stuck underground and evade combat. (Oddly, starting the nearby shredder escort quest caused it to suddenly become unstuck and teleport near the shredder, engaging in combat) - It seemed like mobs were dropping way too much money. I don't remember getting 30 copper per Westfall defias mob, but maybe the memory is just fuzzy. But I really shouldn't have had over a gold and be nearing 2 gold by level 16. So money drops, rewards, or vendor sell prices for items are way too high. Confirmed by old Client. - Farmer Saldean just dropped this line of dialogue on approach: "They might have run all the other farmers off, but the Saldean's will never leave Westfall." Pretty sure that's Cata dialogue. Never seen him talk before.Uauu105 15 Nov
Nov 7, 2017 Welcome - Please Read! Welcome to the Classic Discussion forum! This forum is here to provide you with a friendly environment where you can discuss all aspects of World of Warcraft: Classic with your fellow players. Community forums work best when participants treat their fellow posters with respect and courtesy, so we ask that you take the time to read through the forum Code of Conduct and guidelines before posting. Code of Conduct: http://us.battle.net/en/community/conduct Getting the Most Out of the Forums: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2016792409 Important Reminders: Search The search function at the top of the World of Warcraft community site is extremely effective and robust. Before you create a new forum topic, please be use it to search for similar topics, blog posts, or web pages that may contain the answer for which you are looking. Making a new thread on an existing subject can result in your thread being deleted or, if you continue to re-post the same content, the loss of your forum privileges for spamming. Rating The forum rating system can be used to promote positive discussion and even report posts that violate the forum Code of Conduct. By hovering over a post you'll be presented with several options, including a "thumbs up" (Like) icon. Clicking the "thumbs up" icon will rate the post up. If enough people like a post, it will gain a Highly Rated status and appear at the top of related search results. Highly Rated posts will also have a highlighted background. You can also quickly report a post as trolling or spam, or use the report function to fill out a more comprehensive description of a violation. Please note that you can only rate each post once. Use your power wisely to help foster a positive and helpful forum community.Ornyx1 Nov 7, 2017
My own experience with the WoW Classic beta in the past few days has reaffirmed my longstanding suspicion that the MMO genre ran out of gas entirely too soon. The motifs of progression, classes, and challenging raid content have successfully disseminated into other genres at this point but these concepts are much more interesting when applied to a dynamic, communal space. I hope that both fans and developers will discover that World of Warcraft Classic has lessons left to teach when it releases on August 27th.
14 Nov Alternative to sharding? Both Tips out and Preach have suggested in videos a solution that may ensure a good launch experience, without the use of sharding. And i think they might be on to something! I tried to look it up on the forum to vote, but dint find any, so posting this. The idea is that Blizzard at launch can release multiple servers with the intent that at later stage merge them. e.g Sargeras 1 - _ Sargeras 2 - _ > Sargeras Sargeras 3 - I can see that sharding is practical, but it removes some immersion and might even be destructive to the community! I think this sounds like a good middle road. Preachs video https://youtu.be/BpdfIBt0Zs0?t=1039Stora27	14 Nov 

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I joined twitch in 2013 with the gamer name of FuriousPaul and I streamed speedruns of the classic Castlevania games from 2013 - 2017. Lately my streams have died down quite a bit due to working on Classic WoW leveling guides every day.  Although I may come on occasionally and play a random game for fun on my Twitch stream.  I talk a lot about WoW speedrunning on my channel, so feel free to follow and hang out to discuss vanilla WoW if you like.  Classic WoW will be my main focus for a long time.  Unfortunately I will have to wait until Classic WoW comes out before I start streaming it.
14 Nov A Classic Story Once upon a time, I dinged level 80... I remember it being cold as i was in Northrend. Not to my surprise, I started receiving mail in my inbox. The mail was sent from many of my guild members and non-guild friends on my server. I received Cupcakes, Cakes, Fireworks and even some Beers to congratulate me on reaching max level. I must have receive at least 25 messages all within 15 minutes. The next day my Guild Master suggested that all members of the guild collect Borean Leather to help build my armour. It took us approximately a week to collect and my Armor was complete; I was ready for raiding! As I walked through Stormwind (my main was Alliance at the time.) many people approached me in awe of my achievement and congratulated me on receiving my armour set. These we're people i knew, people that we're always around, they we're people I had made memories with. I made many friends during the golden years of wow, in fact I still talk to many of them via social media today. We created a bond that was based on memories, trust, reliability and friendship. Sadly none of them play the game anymore, and in honesty; i don't think they ever will again..... ------- The above is a true story that wow players will sadly never experience today. ------- Something happened after Cataclysm that started the decline of the world we once knew. To make things clear, It wasn't the fact that the world was now broken. Somehow, Blizzard got the idea that the heart of Warcraft was its story.... The truth is, most of us already knew the story. I myself, had been playing warcraft back in the day on DOS. The RTS version of warcraft was always the best medium to tell the story, while world of warcraft was an opportunity for us to create our own stories, our own legends and legacy’s. ------ In hindsight, it would have been so much better if Blizzard released an RTS alongside it's expansion, this would have given them the opportunity to tell the story while allowing player to live in the same world via WOW. Saying the above, I am truly grateful for classic wow, however I think they've missed the mark. Firstly, it baffles me that people believe vanilla wow players do not want better graphic or animations. Vanilla player always welcomed a better-looking game as we regularly upgraded our hardware for it. I truly believe this is because (New) Blizzard have no idea what the actual heart of wow is anymore. Assuming it's aesthetics and possibly the nostalgia from start zones, the music etc.... This is far from the truth... ------ The heart of Vanilla wow is within the story above, and it hurts me to accept and admit this but the truth is, the heart of wow is dying because (New) Blizzard have lost sight of it. Yes, vanilla wow was a pain in the backside, but that's what made it great. Walking for 30 minutes with a group of 40 members to a raid was a priceless experience. The fact that you know every member of the party, and every member was important to the group as a whole, including yourself, where every member was valued; some more than others, but valued none the less. ------ In its current state, levelling has become a chore, while the end game has become a marathon, with a bunch of non-sense thrown in between that you'll most likely solo as you can't progress without them. ------ (New) Blizzard, we've given you our support and time from day one... I've deleted my account once, and I’m reaching that point again.... Please start listening, before you lose the last of us! Take care...Taurnimator0 14 Nov
Who is Joana?  Joana, (AKA Mancow, or FuriousPaul) speedran 1-60 vanilla WoW from 2005 - 2007.  I have been server first to level 60 seven times in a row, along with winning Blizzard's "First to level 50" contest they held back in 2006.  I also have the fastest time through original vanilla 1-60 WoW in 4 days 20 hours. I have produced a very useful 1-60 horde speed leveling guide along with a 1-60 speedrun video.
If you’re eager to claim your character name in WoW Classic, take note: we’ll be opening character creation on Tuesday, August 13.** Players with an active subscription or game time on their account will be able to create up to three characters per World of Warcraft account. We’ll have more information on realm names closer to launch, but rest assured—you’ll have plenty of time to figure out your plans for realm domination!

To get Blacksmithing to level 300 is much effort. It is not that thing to make fast gold. There is always a lack of Blacksmiths though. Enchanters need rods of all kinds, melee classes look for Sharpening Stones and Weightstones with Counterweights, others buy Iron Spurs. Once you have learnt rare and epic recipes, people will always use your service to craft items.
Rank Source Major Power Desc Minor Power Desc Major Power Actual Minor Power Actual 1 Claim a weekly PVP War Chest in Season 3 or later. Conflict Strife Conflict Strife 2 Reach 1000+ rating then claim your next weekly PVP War Chest in Season 3 or later. Conflict Strife Conflict Strife 3 Collect Burgeoning Battlefield Furor from your weekly War Chest. Conflict Strife Conflict Strife 4 Reach the rank of Elite in the week then claim your next weekly PVP War Chest in Season 3 or later. Conflict Strife Conflict Strife We datamined the following PvP talents related to Conflict and Strife in the latest 8.2 PTR build:
This is the most advanced tip that will only suit the smart players – those willing to spend some time in the auction house. In order to start with the speculations, you’ll need some initial funds and some basic knowledge about the prices on your server, so this tip might not be suitable for many. Back in the day, in order to sell stuff quickly, people used to sell various stuff cheaper than the average price standard on the market and your job is to find those deals and quickly buy them out before anyone else does. This is where the real gold making comes from!
There’s a whole list of websites that are trying to compile the working addons for the WoW Classic beta. The easiest one to parse through is Will It Classic. The site has a list of addons — including a search function — and has color-coded each one to signify whether or not it’s working on the beta client. Keep in mind that the client runs on the Legion API, so there are a few semi-current addons that work without any tweaking by their creators.

Nov 15 Spell Mechanic Questions and Hopes on Items I am not necessarily looking for any discourse that would lead to an answer, but hopefully this would gain enough traction that Blizzard might see it, and offer some insight to intended function come summer 2019. I know there is a current wall of text somewhere regarding questions on almost every item with a spell damage effect and whether or not they will be granted coefficients from character gear grand spell damage. I noticed one in particular that was left out and wanted to reiterate my personal favorites. Shard of the Fallen Star: Originally benefited in part or completely 1:1 ratio from spell damage and was capable of critting. It was nerfed in patch 2.0 which is after classic wow content. In the spirit of keeping things as they were, do you think Blizzard will keep this mechanic or change it to a post nerf state which although is not classic wow maybe seen as a balanced fix. Weapon List: Hand of Ragnaros, Netzerek the Blood Drinker, Corrupted Ashbringer, Shadowstrike - all received 2:1 coefficent originally in classic. I believe they were a little too strong but did not receive any nerf to my knowledge. Do you think these will remain as it was or be changed to satisfy the hopes for balance?Tunnelboy6 Nov 15
I recreated my very first character -- a human warrior, because in the last-push alpha test I joined in 2004, there was no Horde -- and logged in. Immediately, I was surprised by how good the graphics actually looked, for being 15 year old textures-on-polygons. Warcraft's bright colors and cartoony aesthetic continue to this day, so all the increased resolution and better-contoured characters in Lordaeron don't really change the game's visual aesthetic.
Nov 15 Thank you for the demo I just want to say thank you to Blizzard for the demo. I seriously had so much fun - so much more fun than I've had trying to play wow in YEARS. I know not everything was 100% accurate to classic, but it was just a demo so that doesn't worry me too much. I still had a million times more fun playing that demo than retail in any case. THE THINGS I LOVED: (1) I died so much. Like... SO MUCH, and that's alright! Once I finally finished whatever it was I was doing, it felt really rewarding! My group and I were actually laughing when we party wiped. No one insulted anyone or pointed blame, we just had fun. (2) Things took time. The journey mattered, it wasn't just about hitting end game asap. I felt accomplished at the end of all those time consuming things I did. (3) I had fun exploring! I spent so much time just running around, not knowing what the heck to do, but that was FUN. I had FUN getting lost and finding treasure chests. (4) Seeing the classic models again! Tbh, the races all look rubbery and stupid now... I honestly think the old racial looks are nicer. (5) Reading quests was necessary again, so the story mattered to me. No one booted me from the party for "taking too long" because I wanted to read. (6) The community! There were actually people doing RP stuff and talking in character. Everyone in the chat was just having fun. (7) All of the inconveniences - running out of mana, no mounts, running slowly on foot, little or no flightpaths... These things are fun because they're not just handed to me. I had to work hard and play the game to get things. (8) People constantly buffed other players, because that small boost could be the reason you didn't die when a roaming centaur attacked you from behind. THE THINGS I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT: (1) I've heard rumors about possible sharding... PLEASE DO NOT SHARD. PLEASE. I can understand if it's temporary just for the initial launch, and only for starting zones. I think that is a decent enough compromise for the inevitable problem of overpopulation for the first few weeks. But if we're talking about full scale realm sharding, PLEASE DO NOT! Cross-realm features and sharding are what ruined communities in wow, same with dungeon finder and other such things, and these features are very unwanted for a classic player like me. (2) The elite raptor I tamed as a hunter was not stronger than the non-elite raptor I tamed at the same level. In classic, elite animals had better stats as hunter pets once tamed, compared to the same non-elite version of that animal at the same level. (3) I think the mana and health regen rates were a bit too high? I'm not certain, but if they were I honestly want them to be genuine. It's okay if it's hard - challenges make games fun! Anyway, thank you again! I had a ton of fun, and as long as classic is true to classic with all of its pros AND cons, I feel certain that it will be a success.Sarai10 Nov 15
Nov 15 Classic Box Cost Disappointed in the decision to bundle the subs and (at least for now) not have a separate Classic sub option. That said, can we at least get a separate box cost for access to classic? It would: - help alleviate temporary bloat and subsequent dead realms - servers would be more stable population-wise over time - remove the bulk of the need for sharding - give a solid idea of how many servers will be needed - allow blizzard to set up a separate classic forum for those with a monetary commitment - with a separate forum group, feedback would be limited to those with a vested interest The subs would still be bundled, but there would be a box cost, akin to what one would have to pay for BFA access. A very good to-the-point post from later on in this thread:... Another good post about how the current setup would necessitate sharding:... A decent (albeit short-term) alternative:...Brokenwind314 Nov 15
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