There’s the reason why some players used to call the game World of Roguecraft. Rogue was one of the most popular classes in classic WoW and there’s a good reason for it. During vanilla, Rogues topped DPS meters in raids and dungeons, but their main strength was world PvP. Rogues could stealth through enemies avoiding unwanted engagements with the opposing faction. Additionally, a huge variety of crowd control abilities and high burst damage made them the worst nightmare for the cloth-wearing classes. However, Rogues were in a bit of disadvantage regarding end-game gearing since most of their gear pieces were useful to other in-game classes as well.

14 Feb 2014 Forum Guidelines - Please Read Welcome to the World of Warcraft discussion forums! This forum is here to provide you with a friendly environment where you can discuss all aspects of World of Warcraft with your fellow players. Community forums work best when participants treat their fellow posters with respect and courtesy. Therefore, we ask that you take the time to read through the forum Code of Conduct before posting. Search The new search function at the top of the World of Warcraft community site is extremely robust. Please be sure to use it to look for similar topics, blog posts, or web pages that may contain the answer before creating your forum topic. Making a new thread on an existing subject will likely result in your thread being deleted. If you continue to repost it you're likely to have your posting privileges suspended for spamming. Worst of all, you'll be making the other forum goers upset that you didn't take a minute to search before posting. Reporting You can quickly report a post as trolling or spam, or use the report function to fill out a more comprehensive description of the violation. You can only rate each post once. Use it wisely to help foster a positive and helpful forum community. Guidelines In addition to our general Code of Conduct, here are some common courtesy guidelines to follow to ensure these forums remain a constructive and friendly gathering place for the community. While these do technically fall within the bounds of the Code of Conduct, these cover more specific examples of common errors that will lead to thread deletions or posting privileges being revoked. The World of Warcraft forums are for discussion of topics directly related to World of Warcraft The forums here are specifically to discuss the game and related topics. Any topics not related to World of Warcraft, Battle.net or Blizzard are subject to deletion. Don't post in all capital letters, use a misleading title, excessive punctuation, non-standard symbols, etc. While everyone wants their posts read, we ask you to refrain from using these types of tactics in order to bring more people to your thread. Let your post stand on its own merit. Threads violating this guideline are subject to deletion. Using the words Blizzard, Blue, or any community team members name in a thread topic to gather attention is frowned upon Everyone would like Blizzard to read and acknowledge his or her post, and we understand that. However, use of such words in the topic does not help that come to pass. Please make your thread title relevant to the post subject. Threads violating this guideline are subject to deletion. Note that threads discussing e.g. the Blizzard authenticator or Blizzard’s latest press release are allowed to have Blizzard in the title as it’s then relevant to the discussion. Posting "First" or IBTL constitutes as spamming You will be suspended if you create a post that is intended to call out that you achieved a specific reply number in a thread. This is considered spamming. Posting IBTL (in before the lock) is not helpful and if you feel a thread should be moderated please use the rating button to do so. Posting TLDR or L2P constitutes as trolling Posting TLDR (Too Long, Didn’t Read) is saying you don’t care about a player’s post. Posting L2P (Learn to Play) mocks the player for their skill or experience level rather than provide constructive input on the post itself. Both are considered trolling and will lead to a suspension.Takralus2 14 Feb 2014


I joined twitch in 2013 with the gamer name of FuriousPaul and I streamed speedruns of the classic Castlevania games from 2013 - 2017. Lately my streams have died down quite a bit due to working on Classic WoW leveling guides every day.  Although I may come on occasionally and play a random game for fun on my Twitch stream.  I talk a lot about WoW speedrunning on my channel, so feel free to follow and hang out to discuss vanilla WoW if you like.  Classic WoW will be my main focus for a long time.  Unfortunately I will have to wait until Classic WoW comes out before I start streaming it.
15 Nov Changing sides As an old Horde player starting from the end of Vanilla, I've experienced a lot of content Horde-side and grew a bit tired of it. Now I'm torn between 2 options: 1) Recreating character that I had (this mage, actually, who's name was Xoljin before the transfer) to bathe in that nostalgia. 2) Changing a faction to get new experience. I guess there are other old-timers with the same stories, so what do you guys think? Another question, since I can't remember: was it possible to create characters of both factions on PvE and RP servers? What about RP-PvP?Арканист7 15 Nov
15 Nov Progressive itemization and Stages all in one At Blizzcon they showed the 4 Content Stages : https://youtu.be/hhKkP8LryYM?t=2735 As you can see its their "Current thinking" - Meaning its not final. I think we can make it more "vanilla-like" by changing it to 6 Stages and incorporate Progressive Itemization. Lets fiddle with it! Proto-type: 1: - World of Warcraft (7th Nov. 2004 - Patch 1.1-1.1.2) MC (Launch gear) Onyxia Maraudon 2: Ruins of the Dire Maul (6th March 2005 - Patch 1.3-1.4.2) Dire Maul (World Buff and gear on par with early Raid gear) Azuregos Lord Kazak 3: Assault on Blackwing Lair (7th June 2005 - Patch 1.5-1.6.1) BWL PvP Rewards (which included epic PvP and PvE gear) Darkmoon Faire (World Buff and epic trinkets via Darkmoon Cards) Thorium Brotherhood Rep rewards 4 - Rise of the Blood God (13th Sep. 2005 - Patch 1.7-1.8.4) ZG (World Buff, Shoulder Enchants, Oils ect.) Green Dragons BG Weekends (Speeds up PvP rewards) Tier 0.5 (not sure) Upgraded MC gear 5 - The Gates of Ahn'Qiraj (3rd Jan 2006 - patch 1.9-1.10.2) AQ 20/40 Silithus content Upgraded PvP gear Upgraded and new Dungeon gear 6 - Shadow of the Necropolis (20th Jun 2006 - patch 1.11+) Naxx Scourge Invasion And the rest So, yeah - Please feel free to suggest changes. I probably missed something. Just remember that we (nor Blizzard) can get i 100% correct as it was - But we can get closer than those 4 Stages, thats for sure.Ståål19 15 Nov
14 Nov Pserver mechanics So, like a bunch of people here, I played Vanilla on release. Quit after TBC, and only ever picked up the game again in the Pserver scene, which was cool, but I think there are a lot of misconceptions regarding things that work a certain way on private, and never did on live. I think it'd be good if we made a list of differences, to sort this out. 1. Sitting to trigger crit mechanics works on P, didn't on vanilla. 2. Frontstabbing is a thing on P, wasn't on vanilla (I think). 3. Melee DPS is always way higher on P. 4. Warrior charge has always behaved oddly on mangos core 5. The current trend in Pservers is getting 4-5 ony kills per lockout by having 35 people die and leave before the ki ll. Was this possible back then? And so on. Anyone wanna add to the list?Visgoth27 14 Nov
My main plan will be to focus on raw gold in the beginning. Then I will spend my gold on leveling tailoring and enchanting so I can shuffle enchanting materials which is likely to be very profitable. I already have some shuffle ideas, and I will look for more. Then I’ll work on obtaining the rare enchanting and tailoring recipes to craft those for gold. 
Wait, /sit to trigger crits is p-server thing? I distinctly remember people saying that if you sit, you will be crit when I played 1.12 Vanilla. On top of that - there’s that pally that one shot Kazzak in early Vanilla because he stacked a shitload of reckoning when it didn’t have a limit - it’s not inconceivable that he did it without /sit to trigger crits, but it would take him so, SO long to do that without /sit.
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I joined twitch in 2013 with the gamer name of FuriousPaul and I streamed speedruns of the classic Castlevania games from 2013 - 2017. Lately my streams have died down quite a bit due to working on Classic WoW leveling guides every day.  Although I may come on occasionally and play a random game for fun on my Twitch stream.  I talk a lot about WoW speedrunning on my channel, so feel free to follow and hang out to discuss vanilla WoW if you like.  Classic WoW will be my main focus for a long time.  Unfortunately I will have to wait until Classic WoW comes out before I start streaming it.
15 Nov (A)Elysium is Recruiting for Classic Greetings friends, I am the Owner of Elysium Gaming an multigaming and MMO organisation. I play WoW since Vanilla Beta and i am thrilled that we are gonna play again my most beloved game ever :) For that reason even though is early, we recruit people to join our ranks and start our journey together. We accept old and new players who want to play again or learn the game from the side of the Alliance. We are not elitists, we have patiance so we can teach and help those who need it and same time to prepare the guild for the end game. We are interested in PvE and PvP but also in every possible in game event. We are open to ideas and sugestions and after all we will deside all together how to run things.Thats the purpose we start now the recruiting,so we can gather as often as possible on our discord and discuss how we want our guild to be. All together we will deside about everything. I am experienced Guild Master and Raid Leader and i am sure i will be able to help so we can create something nice. If you are interested, please add me as friend Ariakan#2206 so we can discuss farther or join our discord channel https://discord.gg/rCy8sSd Thank youAriakán2 15 Nov
 ":"  -  Any time a step ends in a ":" instead of a "." means that the next step is part of the current step you are on.  This generally means the next step should be done while working on the current step.  This means every "start working on" or "continue working on" will end in a ":".  But this is used with other occasions as well, so keep this in mind.
14 Nov Loot trading is fine It's funny, I've heard that loot trading is bad because it encourages ninja looting, and also that it's bad because it reduces the chances of ninja looting. If you get 3 of your friends to roll on an item, specifically so you can get it, congratulations, you have reached the pinnacle of what an MMO stands for and certainly deserve the item much more than the other person. This can also be done without loot trading, by everyone rolling, and then making a ticket to transfer it over to your friend that really needed it. Takes a lot longer, and Blizzard has to divert time and resources into it. Why wouldn't they crowdsource a personal problem? If someone rolls on an item that they don't need, wins it and decides to try and sell you the item? Now is the time to tell all your friends to avoid that person. Oh you don't have any friends? I guess you have to make some then? This is what an MMO is all about. Since everyone is on the same realm in Classic, your reputation matters. Sure, you can fool people by just leveling another character, but that takes a long time in Classic. Most people decide it's not worth it to be a dick.Monkehh48 14 Nov
The Gold Queen is written by Alyzande. Working on her 14th level 110, she has 9 years expertise in making gold, 19,000+ achievements, 1593 days played, over 39 million gold earned, and now playing World of Warcraft Legion live. The Gold Queen blog teaches you how to make gold playing Warcraft using ethical trading, auction house flipping, crafting, reselling, snatch lists, and farming gold making. Want more updates on Warcraft Legion? Support my Patreon for exclusive pre-release Legion Gold Guides.
Nov 15 Loot sharing. Fools How stupid is the community about loot sharing? You know there is master loot right? Stop being dumb guys like holy crap. You also know that if you're the guy setting up a group or joining a group you have a option not to run or you can pick player's of different armor types... If you're a cloth wearer you just don't run or set up a group with other cloth wearers. Like this is something so simple and the community can't graps anything. I feel bad for blizzard sometimes with having to deal with brain power of this community. The community: "Oh, I didn't think about that. Derp, I'm an idiot."Plewtoe23 Nov 15

14 Nov Guild Recruitment "JAVIDAN" This is too Early ( i know ) but we are bunch of old friends ( Retired WOW Players ) plan to come back to WOW as it was in golden age of classic. we plan to have friendly guild, aimed for enjoying events and raids and for sure PVP. so far we are : 1- Prot Tank 2- Holy Priest 3- Ferral / Resto Druid 4- Destro Warlock 5- BM Hunter 6- Pyro Mage We are Proud Horde and we miss: Resto Shaman Combat Rogue and 2 Free DPS Slot for Start; this is mandatory for starting since plan is to divide into two 5 man Groups for dungeons, Gear / lvl Up and joining initial PVP WSG and AB. We are bunch of friendly old gamers from Iran, our time zone is +3:30 GMT. we will use English as primary language in guild chat. if you like to join us on starting , please leave your name below. have a good day.Siahpoosh9 14 Nov
14 Nov Maining two characters? I really can't decide between maining shaman or hunter. Is it possible to level both simultaneously? I'm not a huge fan of constant min/maxing, but I wonder if it is possible to utilize rested time in a really efficient way and not lose too much time, compared to leveling just one character at a time. How many characters will you level at the same time, around the same level?Felsome16 14 Nov
Before work began on World of Warcraft: Classic, it was only possible for players to experience the original World of Warcraft by using private servers, which are illegal, often have stability or corruption problems, and generally are very imperfect recreations of the authentic World of Warcraft experience. As much as Blizzard has been aware of the desires of their community, until recently it seemed impossible for them to emulate Classic servers due to the technical hurdles of essentially having to run two massively multiplayer online games side-by-side. A breakthrough was then achieved that made it possible to run Classic servers on the modern architecture of current World of Warcraft servers.
15 Nov Everyone will google everything anyway There seems to be this weird consensus among hardcore Classic fans that both leveling and end-game content will be "harder" due to no handholding and aids by Blizzard. People also hope to revive barrens chat because people will "finally be asking for Mankriks wife again". Lets be completely honest. Hardcore Classic players/people coming from Private Servers know all the intrinsic little details by heart by now, while people coming in to "check out" how Vanilla was will simply google everything. Nothing will be new. Nothing will be truly challenging due to lack of knowledge. Your "epic", "months long" journey to 60 of old will take a fraction of the time it took back then, because back then you had no clue about any quest locations. Now you do. Barrens Chat will be nothing but a few people forcibly trying to make Chuck Norris jokes because "thats how it was back then". People might entertain the notion for a while for nostalgias sake, but eventually Barrens Chat will be as barren as your favourite server in BfA right now.Ilathria23	15 Nov

Gold in World of Warcraft: Classic can be earned with a bit of luck too. By killing and looting mobs you might find some truly rare items. Some of them might be usable by you but others might not. Don’t just sell that piece of rare equipment to the nearest vendor as it can earn you quite a bit in the auction house. Especially if it’s an item for a level 50+ character.
Another way to make gold. This option works well at level 60 when you have some good gear already. Obviously, you should have some gold ready to buy reagents. Be ready for expenses up to 225 skill points in any profession: items below that are not worth much. You will get first income after 225 skill points in Leatherworking, Blacksmithing, Alchemy or Tailoring. Unfortunately, Engineering and Enchanting will still require some investments.  The only way to make gold with enchanting is disenchanting skill (we talked about it).

15 Nov (A)Elysium is Recruiting for Classic Greetings friends, I am the Owner of Elysium Gaming an multigaming and MMO organisation. I play WoW since Vanilla Beta and i am thrilled that we are gonna play again my most beloved game ever :) For that reason even though is early, we recruit people to join our ranks and start our journey together. We accept old and new players who want to play again or learn the game from the side of the Alliance. We are not elitists, we have patiance so we can teach and help those who need it and same time to prepare the guild for the end game. We are interested in PvE and PvP but also in every possible in game event. We are open to ideas and sugestions and after all we will deside all together how to run things.Thats the purpose we start now the recruiting,so we can gather as often as possible on our discord and discuss how we want our guild to be. All together we will deside about everything. I am experienced Guild Master and Raid Leader and i am sure i will be able to help so we can create something nice. If you are interested, please add me as friend Ariakan#2206 so we can discuss farther or join our discord channel https://discord.gg/rCy8sSd Thank youAriakán2 15 Nov


14 Nov Maining two characters? I really can't decide between maining shaman or hunter. Is it possible to level both simultaneously? I'm not a huge fan of constant min/maxing, but I wonder if it is possible to utilize rested time in a really efficient way and not lose too much time, compared to leveling just one character at a time. How many characters will you level at the same time, around the same level?Felsome16 14 Nov
Always sell all items on Auction House. If you are not sure about its value, then check the market. There are some risks that item won’t be sold and you will lose money just putting it on Auction House. Good idea to make bank low level characters and keep everything there until the weekend. All sales increasing on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Besides, you can advertise in a trade channel to inform people that an item you are selling has been put on Auction House.
Nov 15 The most hardcore thing you can do. In vanilla? I have a few things that could be it. Playing on a perma death PvP server and kill kel'thuzad. Without dying even once. Being able to kill a mage/rogue/warlock/pally in all BiS gear Soloing a high end dungeon boss like rivendare or dark master gandling. Leveling to 60 with no gear or weapons or pet of any kind. That is by far the most hardcore, life threatening thing you can do in vanilla wowHavell7 Nov 15
Always sell all items on Auction House. If you are not sure about its value, then check the market. There are some risks that item won’t be sold and you will lose money just putting it on Auction House. Good idea to make bank low level characters and keep everything there until the weekend. All sales increasing on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Besides, you can advertise in a trade channel to inform people that an item you are selling has been put on Auction House.
As many of you know, leveling a Warrior in Classic is not easy - it’s almost like playing the game on hard mode. Despite having low mobility, low sustain, and the highest gear dependance in the game, Warriors are by far the most played class in Vanilla. There is a sort of masochistic appeal to leveling the hardest class in the game. To some, this epic challenge provides the purest Vanilla experience, and watching an expert pilot this class with finesse is like watching an artist at work.
Nov 15 Thank you for the demo I just want to say thank you to Blizzard for the demo. I seriously had so much fun - so much more fun than I've had trying to play wow in YEARS. I know not everything was 100% accurate to classic, but it was just a demo so that doesn't worry me too much. I still had a million times more fun playing that demo than retail in any case. THE THINGS I LOVED: (1) I died so much. Like... SO MUCH, and that's alright! Once I finally finished whatever it was I was doing, it felt really rewarding! My group and I were actually laughing when we party wiped. No one insulted anyone or pointed blame, we just had fun. (2) Things took time. The journey mattered, it wasn't just about hitting end game asap. I felt accomplished at the end of all those time consuming things I did. (3) I had fun exploring! I spent so much time just running around, not knowing what the heck to do, but that was FUN. I had FUN getting lost and finding treasure chests. (4) Seeing the classic models again! Tbh, the races all look rubbery and stupid now... I honestly think the old racial looks are nicer. (5) Reading quests was necessary again, so the story mattered to me. No one booted me from the party for "taking too long" because I wanted to read. (6) The community! There were actually people doing RP stuff and talking in character. Everyone in the chat was just having fun. (7) All of the inconveniences - running out of mana, no mounts, running slowly on foot, little or no flightpaths... These things are fun because they're not just handed to me. I had to work hard and play the game to get things. (8) People constantly buffed other players, because that small boost could be the reason you didn't die when a roaming centaur attacked you from behind. THE THINGS I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT: (1) I've heard rumors about possible sharding... PLEASE DO NOT SHARD. PLEASE. I can understand if it's temporary just for the initial launch, and only for starting zones. I think that is a decent enough compromise for the inevitable problem of overpopulation for the first few weeks. But if we're talking about full scale realm sharding, PLEASE DO NOT! Cross-realm features and sharding are what ruined communities in wow, same with dungeon finder and other such things, and these features are very unwanted for a classic player like me. (2) The elite raptor I tamed as a hunter was not stronger than the non-elite raptor I tamed at the same level. In classic, elite animals had better stats as hunter pets once tamed, compared to the same non-elite version of that animal at the same level. (3) I think the mana and health regen rates were a bit too high? I'm not certain, but if they were I honestly want them to be genuine. It's okay if it's hard - challenges make games fun! Anyway, thank you again! I had a ton of fun, and as long as classic is true to classic with all of its pros AND cons, I feel certain that it will be a success.Sarai10 Nov 15
Nov 15 Which class are you planning on rolling? I'm still trying to decide between: Orc shaman: enhancement until 60 then resto for pvp Undead priest: shadow unless I decide to raid a bit Leaning towards these healers since I don't mind the role and 5 mans will be insanely easy to pickup. I've also been tossing around the idea of rogue/mage since that is what I played back on during vanilla/BC (had a blast ganking).Xano24 Nov 15
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An advice for those who are trying to compete monopolizers: you cannot beat them by selling for less if they follow right steps. You should do opposite: sell for more. Because market will come down if the price goes unreasonably high. You can set a bid on item for the price it should cost and buy out price for higher than a monopolizer is selling. So, common buyer may get an item for the right price or monopolizer has to buy the item at his loss.

Preface - I haven't played WoW for any length of time since quitting at the end of WotLK. I dabbled in the next few expansions, where it seemed gold was overabundant, not sure if that's what killed the gold farmers/gold bots/sellers, but I didn't seem to see any, or even think I might have a use for them. However, with WoW Classic, I can see a market for them to come back. Did Blizz ever put something in the game to eliminate this after WotLK, or was it the gold abundance that destroyed their market. If not, I see the gold sellers and websites coming back.
Mobs out in the open world generally have higher movement speed and higher attack speed than you. If you were to stand still and trade hits with a mob back and forth you may end up trading 1 of your Auto attacks for 2+ of theirs. If executed properly, The Hamstring Method allows you to trade 1 hit for 1 hit with a target, drastically reducing your damage taken while not reducing your damage at all since you are monitoring your natural auto attacks with the swing timer.
We have no idea what implications this might have and whether or not it even indicates anything, since Patch 8.2 is still in testing and a Tuesday launch is more than unlikely due to Essence tuning and Azshara's Eternal Palace, which is supposedly coming shortly after launch. Blizzard said they wouldn't be delaying the new raid like they did with Battle of Dazar'alor.
14 Nov Alternative to sharding? Both Tips out and Preach have suggested in videos a solution that may ensure a good launch experience, without the use of sharding. And i think they might be on to something! I tried to look it up on the forum to vote, but dint find any, so posting this. The idea is that Blizzard at launch can release multiple servers with the intent that at later stage merge them. e.g Sargeras 1 - _ Sargeras 2 - _ > Sargeras Sargeras 3 - I can see that sharding is practical, but it removes some immersion and might even be destructive to the community! I think this sounds like a good middle road. Preachs video https://youtu.be/BpdfIBt0Zs0?t=1039Stora27 14 Nov
Balance: Moonkin Aura - Starsurge grants 4% spell critical strike chance to 8 allies within 40 yards for 18 sec, stacking up to 3 times. Feral: Leader of the Pack - While in Cat Form, you increase the melee and ranged critical chance of raid members within 40 yards by 5%. Leader of the Pack also causes affected targets to heal themselves for 4% of their maximum health when they critically hit with a melee or ranged attack. The healing effect cannot occur more than once every 6 sec. Guardian: Sharpened Claws - Maul increases the damage done by your Swipe and Thrash by 25% for 6 sec. Restoration: Overgrowth - Instantly applies Lifebloom, Rejuvenation, Wild Growth, and Regrowth's heal over time effect to the target. Hunter

Plenty of gameplay things have changed -- more on that in a minute -- but one thing almost immediately transformed the game for me. I was killing my fourth Kobold Vermin (sorry guys, I'm taking those candles) by auto-attacking it and waiting impatiently for my lone ability to light up, when it struck me: This was going to be slow. Really, really slow. And, after another minute, I realized that was okay.
It is also worth noting that World of Warcraft Classic isn't exactly an archive from 2006. It has been rebuilt from patch 1.12, using modern data architecture and reaps the benefits of the modern engine. This means a lot of non-controversial quality-of-life features will still be present and it is possible to run WoW Classic servers on modern server architecture. As you can imagine, much has changed in the last 13 years in the tech space. That's before smartphones were even a thing. The modern engine no longer allows certain behaviours that could be used to get out of bounds, also adds widescreen monitor support and accessibility options! However, it does have the disadvantage of not being able to run on 32-bit systems which isn't that kind to older systems considering the game is from 2006. 
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