14 Nov Some thoughts about sharding,loot-trading etc As stated in an earlier post (https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17619571827), I didn't start playing the game until Jan./Feb. 2006, so my own experience with Vanilla is limited (compared to many others in the community). I do however want Classic to be as close to Vanilla as it can possibly be. (Disclaimer; I do admit I haven't gone too deep into all the topics, in regards to the implications of implementing such and such. These are just a random dude's thoughts about an upcoming revamp I'm really hyped about.) -Updated graphics and new models; I don't really have a problem with either. I think. I mean, it's not a deal-breaker for me, but I would prefer the old-school stuff. Currently playing on a potato, so I don't really know what updated graphics are anyways. :p -Sharding; no. Server-crashes (or login-queues) will always be preferable to sharding. Obviously nobody wants server-crashes or login-queues, but unlike sharding, it's not game-breaking. And besides, when the game comes out it will be 2019... are Blizzard saying they don't have the tech. to create sharding-free, non-hyperlaggy servers? I hear talks about how private servers manage to do it, so it will obviously be a non-issue for Blizzard to also do it... right? -Server-population; 3k-ish? Not sure tbh, but it should be (as with most other things) as close to Vanilla as possible. -Server-mergers; Don't really know how I feel about this, I just have more questions. Inevitably people will drop off, re-roll/switch servers etc., so what will happen with the "dead" servers? -Debuff-limit; 8 at launch. I don't really have an opinion on when 16 should be implemented, but it should be 8 at launch. -Loot-trading; a HUGE no-no! Not only was this not in Vanilla, this will 100% be abused. I can understand the point Frostadamus and others have made, that it could be used in raids but not dungeons, but there is no actual need for it to be implemented. -Progressive itemization; yes. This topic goes over my head, so I'll leave it up to the smart people to figure it out. But yes. -Content release; I like/agree with Esfand; ... -Classic being Classic; to borrow from a YT-comment (Michael Pate); "No one completed BWL unless they had completed MC. No one completed AQ40 who had not completed BWL. No one completed Naxx who had not completed AQ40." For some reason I see a lot of people who really hate this, that they can't just hit max level and jump right into a raid and expect to kill bosses. (You know, there are these pre-raid BiS-lists out there...) They also talk about tuning raids, balancing classes (and melee vs. casters) etc. I don't get it. This is supposed to be Classic, so the classes/roles will obviously not be balanced, nor should they be. Being out-healed by other classes, or out-dps'd? Yes, you will be. You personally may not top the meters, but the guild/raid will progress, and that's the point. Needing resistance-gear for specific encounters? Naturally (pun intended). Getting a fancy cloak to shield you from a terrible fire-breathing dragon? (points to you if you get the movie-reference) Definitely. Getting specific items in order to down a specific boss is a good thing, and in order to progress/complete a specific raid, you should have gathered enough gear/skill/experience from the previous raid(s). But if you are unable to leave your e-peen at the login-screen, you need to find a very hardcore raid(or pvp)guild, or I fear you will not enjoy Classic. Non-hardcore (and/or non-fanatical) guilds won't have a problem with hybrid specs joining their ranks, but all of this is subjective. Play the class/spec you want to play. If you hate tanking, don't play a tank. You should definitely try it out at some point, as with healing, but this is a game after all, it is supposed to be fun. So play the way you want to play, with people you want to play with, who has no problem with you playing the class/role you want to play. No matter your desire or playstyle, there will always be others out there who share your insanity/quirks. Great minds think alike and all that. :) I'm sure there are things I've forgotten to write about, misunderstood etc. Thankfully there are lots of more knowledgeable players out there who are also better at explaining why they think the way they think. But again, these are just my random thoughts on some topics. -Rychaq-Rychaq5 14 Nov
Always sell all items on Auction House. If you are not sure about its value, then check the market. There are some risks that item won’t be sold and you will lose money just putting it on Auction House. Good idea to make bank low level characters and keep everything there until the weekend. All sales increasing on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Besides, you can advertise in a trade channel to inform people that an item you are selling has been put on Auction House.
Wait, /sit to trigger crits is p-server thing? I distinctly remember people saying that if you sit, you will be crit when I played 1.12 Vanilla. On top of that - there’s that pally that one shot Kazzak in early Vanilla because he stacked a shitload of reckoning when it didn’t have a limit - it’s not inconceivable that he did it without /sit to trigger crits, but it would take him so, SO long to do that without /sit.
15 Nov Wall jump and moonwalk in classic It's been reported by demo players that you currently can't "moonwalk" or wall jump in classic wow, along with many other non-vanilla like mechanics. This isn't a big surprise since the game is based off of the BFA client and is far from being done, but it brings up some concerns. As said on the classic wow panel, they're trying to get "as close as possible" to vanilla. This might be good enough when it comes to things like graphics or zones configuration, but not when it comes to things like player movement. I'm worried that the game is always gonna feel like an imitation of vanilla rather than the real thing because of the BFA base. Are there any plans to make sure things like wall jumping and moonwalking are in the game?Ruftvess29 15 Nov
The Horde levels 50-60 guide has been rewritten and revamped.  My 1-60 Horde leveling guide is now completely updated for the 1.12 Drums of War patch.  As you can see it is about 15% larger than the 40-50 guide (single largest guide page yet).  There is also a lot of route changes.  I moved the entire Silithus section from level 55 to level 58, which allowed me to include a lot more quests for that zone.  There is also a lot of other improvement to the route, including adding a lot more quests into the guide, mostly from Moonglade, Silithus and Eastern Plaguelands.  This will make the final level 59 grind much shorter.
Nov 15 Question about the PVP system I am struggling to put the words to my question so let me just throw my 'plan' out there. Please correct me if my assumptions are wrong. Since horde are typically the pvp focused faction, I planned on rolling alliance on a pvp server with horde dominating the server in order to climb pvp ranks easier. My queue times would be instant and there would be less competition when trying to climb the ranks. The way I understand the honor system is that I am competing against others on my faction for a position on the ladder. Less competition would make it easier to climb. I know I will never get rank 14 and don't plan on it. I thought with my limited play time, if I was on a horde dominated pvp server I would cap around rank 6-7. Being on the alliance on the same realm I could get to 8-9 with the same /played. Is this true or do I have it wrong?Jdpp5 Nov 15
15 Nov What classes will be rare/common? Given that with Wow Classic, players will have the benefit of hindsight, what classes will be oversubscribed and which will be rare? I prefer playing spellcasters and would love to go mage, but it would be a bit boring if there were loads of other mages around. Seems like there might be. What's a good compromise, lock?Ballam37 15 Nov
Another way to make gold. This option works well at level 60 when you have some good gear already. Obviously, you should have some gold ready to buy reagents. Be ready for expenses up to 225 skill points in any profession: items below that are not worth much. You will get first income after 225 skill points in Leatherworking, Blacksmithing, Alchemy or Tailoring. Unfortunately, Engineering and Enchanting will still require some investments.  The only way to make gold with enchanting is disenchanting skill (we talked about it).
Before work began on World of Warcraft: Classic, it was only possible for players to experience the original World of Warcraft by using private servers, which are illegal, often have stability or corruption problems, and generally are very imperfect recreations of the authentic World of Warcraft experience. As much as Blizzard has been aware of the desires of their community, until recently it seemed impossible for them to emulate Classic servers due to the technical hurdles of essentially having to run two massively multiplayer online games side-by-side. A breakthrough was then achieved that made it possible to run Classic servers on the modern architecture of current World of Warcraft servers.

As I wrote in my preview, World of Warcraft Classic has much more to offer than just nostalgia. The world is filled to the brim with abstruse and challenging elements that coerce you to make and maintain relationships with other players if you want to succeed. As a result, I believe that WoW Classic’s MMO ecosystem offers an experience that can’t be found anywhere else in 2019. And, it would appear I’m not the only one who sees something special in the more-than-decade-old game. Just last week more than 100,000 viewers congregated in the chat of popular streamer “Asmongold” to watch him successfully fell Edwin Van Cleef in the classic Deadmines. A vindicating spectacle that would have been impossible to witness without Blizzard overcoming certain technical hurdles. 

I made some route changes to the Horde levels 43-44 sections.  I have swapped 44 Dustwallow Marsh with 44 Desolace (the entire sections). This allowed me to do Deadmire (at lvl 43 instead of 38) and then go stop at TB to turn in Deadmire + The Black Shield at the same time, then fly quickly to do the Desolace stuff.  Doing 44 Desolace is now mandatory because I think its faster with the new routes. This will also make the level 53 grind much shorter.  I think these were great changes.
When it comes to levelling the Priest Class from 1-60 fast, XP grinding locations is only half the battle. You will need to make sure your weapon does enough DPS so that you can clear these mobs fast enough, it should also be noted that monster should be around your level to make sure to gain the 100% XP Reward. The Level your character should be before you start that specific location will be indicated to left in a Blue Color for Alliance [Lvl 35-39] and the Orange Color for Horde [Lvl 35-39]. The Mobs you are looking for in that specific area names are Bolded [Mob Name].
This is the first faction exclusive class available only for the Alliance players. Paladins in World of Warcraft: Classic end-game were considered as one of the best single target healers around. However, other Paladin specs were not that popular. While Protection Paladins found their spot with tanking groups of mobs across the dungeons, Retribution Paladins weren’t very popular in the end-game. However, Paladins were amazing levelers and World PvP participants due to their amazing utility skills and ‘oh shit’ buttons such as Lay on Hands or Bubble.
15 Nov Please reconsider 2-in-1 subscription. Please note this is not a thread about hating on BfA players or tourists. I am happy they have their own game or might experience how vanilla was like (at very least rather similiar to what it was). However, the bundled subscription comes with extreme drawbacks to both Classic and BfA players: It gives Blizzard a reason to cut corners on both games Since their monetary gains will be lower, as you only need one sub to play either BfA or Classic. Remembering how Blizzard has operated for the past few years gives you a clear reason why Classic supposedly needs to have Sharding, Right Click Reporting, Loot Trading and many other "conviniences". Blizzard is not expecting to bank on Classic in the long term and so, will have it operate on a shoestring budget. BfA is in danger too. Always having Classic as a fallback lets Blizzard go WoD 2.0 on BfA (and possibly future expansions), seeing as there is always some content in the retro game to do. It makes Blizzard assume extremely low retention rate And that's not neccesarily incorrect either. Assuming most of the tourist crowd will log on launch, the absolute lack of convinience and lots of running compared to 'fun' activities will put them off, possibly before leaving the first zone. The problem begins if some tourists stay, since all mechanics put in place to stabilize overestimated populations will have to remain until people leave, which might become more and more unlikely as time goes on (especially since people flock to high pop servers). It makes Blizzard prioritize a controlled launch experience Let's not kid ourselves, this is to make that launch look GOOD. The problem arises when we realize we need lots to quit the game that 'flows perfectly for everyone' before they hit a wall. The absolute uncontained chaos of launch day is something epic to see, epic to be part of and I've seen quite a lot of people express the opinion that while Blizzard is trying to resolve a perceived problem, they are in fact erasing the experience that would be paid for. It negates the obvious gameplay possibility One subscription means you can be logged in on one character at any given point in time. Makes sense. However, bundling the subs would imply you wanted players to have fun in both games. Say, go onto a really long flight path in Classic and do your emmisary in BfA. Or the reverse - 2 hours until raid night in BfA with nothing to do? Jump onto your Classic character and run a dungeon. To actually be able to use a flight path in Classic and play BfA simultaneously, you need a second sub. Why bundle them if you need 2 subs anyway to enjoy both games in ways you are certain you would with a single sub, but would be DC'd off one character? It targets the wrong crowd Now this is purely anecdotal, and thus worthless from a statistical POV but I'm sure someone can relate. My tight-knit group of 10 friends in total was rather eager to play Classic (some of us playing Retail, some playing on vanilla emulators). Well, almost all of us. Only two of them weren't happy about it, one person being neutral as he doesn't care, and another being hostile and 'happy to have Vanilla players put into their own asylum'. With all the changes that Classic 'needs' implemented, we're not going to return as private servers are closer to the actual vanilla experience. Doubly so once Classic releases - Blizzard is putting all the numbers, spawn points and mechanics into private server devs' hands. The anti-Classic player is happy, since he gets to 'screw around and troll a bit' without paying a single extra dime. 5 potential resubs are gone. It may encourage trading Modern and Classic gold ... The solution There were many solutions given and all of them have drawbacks. I propose separating subs, and to enable a free 10-day trial a few weeks after launch. Tourists/nostalgia runs get their dose of Classic without impacting server populations since these should be stable already. Without paying extra, just like they would be with a shared sub. Meanwhile, Classic players might get the neccessary staff that we need to not have the retail systems pushed into Classic as means to reduce recurring costs.Yathri43 15 Nov
I received a beta invite for Classic, and had also been an alpha and beta tester for the original game 15 years ago. That isn't unique; plenty of people in Northshire Valley had had the same experience, suggesting to me that active players who were Day 1 WoW gamers or had participated in the original tests might have gotten priority invitations to this one.
Step-by-step class guides are on the way!  The 1-12 Mulgore Guide is the first guide to get all the individual class steps.  At the top of the guide, simply select which class you are playing and the page will dynamically update all the steps in the guide for that class (both text and images).  The rest of the guides will be slowly updated overtime to include all the class steps, but you can see how it's going to work with the 1-12 Mulgore.  I want to thank crazyK and his Placeholderguild for helping me out with the individual class content.  They are allowing me to get the 1-60 Alliance guide done while also getting all the class steps done at the same time, so everything can be ready for Classic launch (hopefully).
15 Nov Playing the Classic Demo UPDATE: The playtime limits on the WoW Classic demo have now been removed. Enjoy! --- When the World of Warcraft: Classic demo becomes available to play at home on Friday, November 2, we will ensure maximum availability to players at home by initially establishing session limits. When the demo goes live, we’ll use a playtime time limit and a cooldown (that starts when you first log in) to help as many people as possible play the Classic demo as much as possible. We’ll start with a playtime limit of a cumulative 60 minutes and a cooldown of 90 minutes. Here are some examples of how that might work: If you play for 30 minutes and then log off for 60 minutes, when you come back you’ll have a fresh 60 minutes. If you play for 60 minutes, you’ll be disconnected and then have to wait 30 minutes before you can play again. If you play for 20 minutes, log off for 20 minutes, then play 40 more minutes, you’ll be logged off and wait 10 more minutes. Our goal is to lift session limits as quickly as we feasibly can after the demo goes live. We will then only reinstate session limits if unexpectedly high demand returns. We will update this post with further information on this, as necessary. Thank you!Kaivax31 15 Nov

You will see a resurgence of power leveling services, item trade services, and gold farming. Classic will have a fresh economy meaning for your average gold farmer time spent in classic is way more efficient. It will probably be worse than it was back in the day. Just look at the blizzard group finder on retail, littered with advertisements for m+ boosting websites. Disgusting. There will be so many gold farmers blizz probably won't be able to keep up. And this is what I truly fear because if the gold farmers start to win activision will step in and introduce wow token. And classic will die.
Before work began on World of Warcraft: Classic, it was only possible for players to experience the original World of Warcraft by using private servers, which are illegal, often have stability or corruption problems, and generally are very imperfect recreations of the authentic World of Warcraft experience. As much as Blizzard has been aware of the desires of their community, until recently it seemed impossible for them to emulate Classic servers due to the technical hurdles of essentially having to run two massively multiplayer online games side-by-side. A breakthrough was then achieved that made it possible to run Classic servers on the modern architecture of current World of Warcraft servers.
Nov 15 We ordered vanilla not vanilla with sprinkles 1. Sharding/Phasing was not a part of the classic experience. The launch surge and often times overwhleming population fighting over quest mobs and loot was impactful on a human level which brought people together to make parties so they weren't fighting or made people bitter rivals. And that ten minutes you spent competing with people to loot that bucket before it despawned for another few minutes was intense. 2. Loot trading was not a part of the classic experience. Ninja looting was a real thing, a crime you could commit which united the community up in arms against you, blacklisting you. That's a feature for modern WoW, not genuine classic. This is a recreation. Not a remaster. Not reforged. We ordered vanilla, not vanilla with sprinkles on it with modern hand holding baby coddling streamlined bogus. That's more suited to your modern WoW playerbase, not the millions waiting patiently for the game they knew and loved over a decade ago. I don't want to sound like an entitled brat, but when you advertise a product, don't change it behind the scenes. Please Blizzard, don't add these things. They kill aspects of what made classic wow such a special phenomenon that rallied people to make private servers in its honor. I'll go play one if this isn't authentic, because those unofficial servers would be more authentic.Rhystael95 Nov 15

Nov 15 I Don't Have Time To Reach Rank 11-14 I Don't Have Time To Reach Rank 11-14 and this is perfectly ACCEPTABLE! I actually like the fact that rank 11-14 is extremely hard to get and time consuming. I don't care if it's not about skill, it is very RPG feeling in the fact that, the people who put in the most time and effort spilling the most enemy blood are the ones who get the best rewards. as somebody who will NEVER have a chance of getting those ranks and items because; 1. I do not have time to do it 2. even if I did have time I still wouldn't do it because I mentally could not farm BG's that many hours for 3 months I support the PvP system and think it is great, and acquiring the hugely powerful items is a big reward and a status symbol. in Classic WoW the game is less about YOU and more about your guild. even if you are not the person to get rank 14, or a Legendary item it still feels awesome when your guild mates get them because it will make your guild stronger. LOVE IT!Agonyy107 Nov 15


15 Nov (A)Elysium is Recruiting for Classic Greetings friends, I am the Owner of Elysium Gaming an multigaming and MMO organisation. I play WoW since Vanilla Beta and i am thrilled that we are gonna play again my most beloved game ever :) For that reason even though is early, we recruit people to join our ranks and start our journey together. We accept old and new players who want to play again or learn the game from the side of the Alliance. We are not elitists, we have patiance so we can teach and help those who need it and same time to prepare the guild for the end game. We are interested in PvE and PvP but also in every possible in game event. We are open to ideas and sugestions and after all we will deside all together how to run things.Thats the purpose we start now the recruiting,so we can gather as often as possible on our discord and discuss how we want our guild to be. All together we will deside about everything. I am experienced Guild Master and Raid Leader and i am sure i will be able to help so we can create something nice. If you are interested, please add me as friend Ariakan#2206 so we can discuss farther or join our discord channel https://discord.gg/rCy8sSd Thank youAriakán2 15 Nov
"Challenge is part of it," Birmingham continued. "The world feels dangerous. There are difficult group quests out in the world, elite quests that you can't do by yourself, or you would have to over-level if you wanted to do them by yourself. Where they really push you to find somebody else to help you out, or out level them and come back later, or you can just leave them and go on. You don't have to complete every quest in every zone. You can choose your path through the world. So I think that is exactly the classic gameplay that people are looking for."
15 Nov Everything wrong in Demo - listed Dont worry cuz its just a demo. We only saw 4 levels and 2 zones. LOL. General Issues -Items with random attributes show stats from newer expansions (Ex. Critical strike rating) (items rarely had crit or hit rating, and it was always in % example ) - Damage number fonts and size is from WoD, the original was from Vanilla->MoP (The position of the damage as well as the "pop" of crits is different aswell. Also, the CT was changed slightly even during MOP. In MOP the crits were still "poppy", but they always showed up in a uniform line) - Sharding (they have already made a statement about sharding. But i still note it here) - Example of sharding problems - https://clips.twitch.tv/ChillyCrunchyBunnyPermaSmug - You can use meeting stones to summon people (added in tbc Patch 2.0.1 Source ) - You cant jump in water, you rise/swim when pressing space - Mob packs (ex. the defias camps on the mountain in Westfall) seems to be linked, so you cant pull 1 and run back, all 3 will follow forever, if 1 drops aggro they all reset (Not sure if this is blizzlike or not, Blizz would have to check the referance 1.12 client) The way you kite mobs in classic does not work in the demo, Probably a problem with the mob AI? - Cant abuse the walking animation to get a "moonwalk" Animation (would be sad to leave out such an iconic thing from the old engine) - Wand attacks cause you to face the target - You can use bnet to whisper members of the enemy faction - Might still be some problems where mobs spawn/error between the db/world. Reports of mobs spawning under the map - Mobs fanning is implemented incorrectly, they are walking backwards instead of turning around to adjust positions. - After using a flight path I was flagged as "player vs all" (like in gurubashi arena) and was able to attack players with the same bug - The graveyard at moonbrook, westfall doesn't have vultures. It should. - Rare mobs deals way less damage then they used too (hit like 25 some of them) - Chests has less green drops then they used too (40% of the time currently) - Spell Batching is not implemented because of the post cata engine. Big impact on PvP. - Kobolds at the Jangolode Mine in West fall, when low health and running away from you, run at much faster speed than even normal walking. They should walk away. - defias mobs in Jangolode mine (maybe other mobs as well?) Don't run back and attack again if they are low health and start running away from you. I think they should start attacking you again after ~8 seconds or so of running away - Corpses seem to despawn very quickly. I can kill a mob, loot it, and turn away and it'll be gone within 10 seconds. - Mobs sometimes spawn underneath terrain and glitch/evade--for example, hyenas sometimes spawned underneath hills near Centaur camps, and the Sludge Beast rare spawn near the Venture Co. tower in the Barrens would be stuck underground and evade combat. (Oddly, starting the nearby shredder escort quest caused it to suddenly become unstuck and teleport near the shredder, engaging in combat) - It seemed like mobs were dropping way too much money. I don't remember getting 30 copper per Westfall defias mob, but maybe the memory is just fuzzy. But I really shouldn't have had over a gold and be nearing 2 gold by level 16. So money drops, rewards, or vendor sell prices for items are way too high. Confirmed by old Client. - Farmer Saldean just dropped this line of dialogue on approach: "They might have run all the other farmers off, but the Saldean's will never leave Westfall." Pretty sure that's Cata dialogue. Never seen him talk before.Uauu105 15 Nov

“We talked about it [making Classic] for a number of years and we couldn’t figure out what the right way to do it would be,” Brack explained. "The problem was, the codebase that shipped with WoW and encompassed the WoW Classic timeline was a codebase that we had really moved on from in subsequent years. Software is a very iterative process, and its development was more than 10 years in the past at this point. So thinking about the hardware that didn’t exist anymore that we would need to run on it, running two MMOs simultaneously with two different toolsets, two different toolchains, it was not something we could really get our head around.”

Notez cependant, que les développeurs ont précisé que le nombre de personnes qui rejoindront la bêta fermée sera beaucoup moins important que pour une bêta ordinaire. Il ne s'agit pas ici d'équilibrer le jeu, mais de corriger des bugs et des problèmes qui pourraient apparaître. Afin d'y avoir une chance de participer, vous devez vous inscrire via le site www.wowclassic.com. 

Wait, /sit to trigger crits is p-server thing? I distinctly remember people saying that if you sit, you will be crit when I played 1.12 Vanilla. On top of that - there’s that pally that one shot Kazzak in early Vanilla because he stacked a shitload of reckoning when it didn’t have a limit - it’s not inconceivable that he did it without /sit to trigger crits, but it would take him so, SO long to do that without /sit.
14 Nov At least in 1 thing we all agree? Blizzard made "haste" decision and terrible decision,by opening Demo without even completing or making "Classic" authentic to "Vanilla we all remember from 2005/2006". They didn't even inform or request "Public Opinion" before they released Demo with changes like "Sharp,Loot Share,Graphic".Killerduki7 14 Nov
14 Nov Will I gimp my raid by playing Shadow Priest? I have a burning passion for shadow priest in vanilla and I mostly want to raid. I've been talking to some people I know and some of them say that they would never bring a shadow priest into raid and others say that they absolutely want 1 shadow priest in their raid group. Why the mixed reactions? From my understanding, shadow priests in classic are mainly brought to raids to buff the damage output of your warlocks with Shadow Weaving. How many warlocks would a raid need to make 1 shadow priest worth bringing over a mage for example, and am I gimping the raids DPS by taking up that raid spot?Luminé39 14 Nov
Making "new" guides seems kinda out of place. Not only is there still alot of information from back then available, there came alot of information up for minmaxing available for both leveling and raiding, ontop of various bis gear lists that cover patch progression aswell if necessary. Wether people like or dislike pservers does not make the various information found on their forums less valuable.

This Shadow Talent Build is the fastest for Leveling Up a Priest Class from 1-60 in WoW Classic patch 1.12. Spamming Shadow Damage DOTs while kite mobs will be the name of the game with this build, having the ability to sustain your health is just a bonus. You will just need to make sure you are stacking enough spirit so you don’t run out of mana often as that will slow down the levelling process drastically.
14 Nov Maining two characters? I really can't decide between maining shaman or hunter. Is it possible to level both simultaneously? I'm not a huge fan of constant min/maxing, but I wonder if it is possible to utilize rested time in a really efficient way and not lose too much time, compared to leveling just one character at a time. How many characters will you level at the same time, around the same level?Felsome16 14 Nov
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