This option is better to use at level 40+. Higher level you are is better, more money you make then. All you do is farming dungeons or specific bosses. Here you kill a few birds with one stone: you get lots of experience (make sure you have all quests in your quest log, always ask your teammates to share) if you are still leveling; improve your current gear; and loads of loot (clothes, recipes, even crappy grey items selling for a lot to a vendor). If you are in a group, think about your groupmates if they need an item or not, don’t roll need on everything.
15 Nov Changing sides As an old Horde player starting from the end of Vanilla, I've experienced a lot of content Horde-side and grew a bit tired of it. Now I'm torn between 2 options: 1) Recreating character that I had (this mage, actually, who's name was Xoljin before the transfer) to bathe in that nostalgia. 2) Changing a faction to get new experience. I guess there are other old-timers with the same stories, so what do you guys think? Another question, since I can't remember: was it possible to create characters of both factions on PvE and RP servers? What about RP-PvP?Арканист7 15 Nov
A different brand of challenge is presented by the PVP, which has undergone multiple phases and metas throughout the game's long lifespan. As in any competitive live game, some classes will be a fan favorite criticized as overpowered in one era only to be left behind in the next. The team says this is one of the main reasons it chose this specific iteration of WoW.
14 Nov Alternative to sharding? Both Tips out and Preach have suggested in videos a solution that may ensure a good launch experience, without the use of sharding. And i think they might be on to something! I tried to look it up on the forum to vote, but dint find any, so posting this. The idea is that Blizzard at launch can release multiple servers with the intent that at later stage merge them. e.g Sargeras 1 - _ Sargeras 2 - _ > Sargeras Sargeras 3 - I can see that sharding is practical, but it removes some immersion and might even be destructive to the community! I think this sounds like a good middle road. Preachs video https://youtu.be/BpdfIBt0Zs0?t=1039Stora27 14 Nov
Once WoW Classic Launches As Appointed, New WoW Currency Just Like WOW Gold Must Be Provided For Almost Anything Including Exchange WoW Items. Exactly, We MMOAH, A Platform Owning Hundreds Of MMO Game Currency Including The Coming World Of Warcraft Classic Gold Keeping Up To Date And Satisfying-Full Inventory, Have Been Selling Game Currency For Several Years To Worldwide Clients, We'll Provide 100% Secure Online Payment System, Fast Delivery And Cheapest Prices Even 100% Refund With NO.1 Reputation Checked On Trustpilot, Ownedcore And Epicnpc Reviews. Now, We Start To Accept WoW Classic Gold Quick Order, Don't Delay Any Longer, Hope A Joyful Trading.
Arms: Sharpen Blade - When activated, your next Mortal Strike will deal 15% increased damage and reduce healing taken by 50% for 6 sec. Fury: Battle Trance - You go into a trance causing you to regenerate 3% of your health and generate 5 Rage every 3 sec for 18 sec after using Raging Blow twice in a row on a target. Using Raging Blow on a new target will cancel this effect. Protection: Thunderstruck - Thunder Clap roots all targets for 1 sec. You can find a list of all Essences available in Rise of Azshara here.
14 Nov Classic WoW alternate timeline Hi, I'd love to hear some players opinion on the following: WoW Classic to be an alternate timeline. Players stay at level 60 and further content will be developed. Like different Raids, Dragon Isles, that weird Snail-Like-Building for possible old god content, Mount Hyjal, Dead Wind pass. Devs could implement all the old stuff that was planned for Vanilla wow. Deathwing... Azshara Battleground. Or staggering release of Expansions until Wrath of the Lich King? (Personally I wouldn't like that.. I'd rather stay in Vanilla forever... like until I'm a old man in my 80s dying while goldfarming or something.) Or just straight staying on the Naxx Patch forever? My favourite would be having a long time for the Naxx patch so more ppl can kill Kel'thuzad and then developing this unplanned content sounds like a very very awesome Idea for me. Having a level 60 alternate timeline to current wow would make it even better. Greetings Dandin (name of my first char ever :) )Payneprime34 14 Nov
There’s a whole list of websites that are trying to compile the working addons for the WoW Classic beta. The easiest one to parse through is Will It Classic. The site has a list of addons — including a search function — and has color-coded each one to signify whether or not it’s working on the beta client. Keep in mind that the client runs on the Legion API, so there are a few semi-current addons that work without any tweaking by their creators.
In OSRS, before bonds (their equivalent of tokens) were released, there was a strong gold industry, but most people who bought gold did so by buying bonds on the main game, then finding a dedicated 'swapper' who'd exchange their RS3 gold for an appropriate amount of OSRS gold (taking a cut for themselves, of course). I wonder if a similar system will pop up in classic wow
Balance: Moonkin Aura - Starsurge grants 4% spell critical strike chance to 8 allies within 40 yards for 18 sec, stacking up to 3 times. Feral: Leader of the Pack - While in Cat Form, you increase the melee and ranged critical chance of raid members within 40 yards by 5%. Leader of the Pack also causes affected targets to heal themselves for 4% of their maximum health when they critically hit with a melee or ranged attack. The healing effect cannot occur more than once every 6 sec. Guardian: Sharpened Claws - Maul increases the damage done by your Swipe and Thrash by 25% for 6 sec. Restoration: Overgrowth - Instantly applies Lifebloom, Rejuvenation, Wild Growth, and Regrowth's heal over time effect to the target. Hunter
Balance: Moonkin Aura - Starsurge grants 4% spell critical strike chance to 8 allies within 40 yards for 18 sec, stacking up to 3 times. Feral: Leader of the Pack - While in Cat Form, you increase the melee and ranged critical chance of raid members within 40 yards by 5%. Leader of the Pack also causes affected targets to heal themselves for 4% of their maximum health when they critically hit with a melee or ranged attack. The healing effect cannot occur more than once every 6 sec. Guardian: Sharpened Claws - Maul increases the damage done by your Swipe and Thrash by 25% for 6 sec. Restoration: Overgrowth - Instantly applies Lifebloom, Rejuvenation, Wild Growth, and Regrowth's heal over time effect to the target. Hunter
I am currently working full time on my Vanilla WoW leveling guides.  Soon there will be a 1-60 speed leveling guide for Alliance, along with in-game guide versions available for my members area.  As of right now, there is no members area, but if you would like to show support for my efforts into this project, you can simply donate to me via Patreon if you like (you will get some cool rewards in return).  Or you can donate directly with PayPal if you like.  All donations are highly appreciated and they will only motivate me more to continue making the best vanilla WoW leveling guides on the web.
14 Nov Will I gimp my raid by playing Shadow Priest? I have a burning passion for shadow priest in vanilla and I mostly want to raid. I've been talking to some people I know and some of them say that they would never bring a shadow priest into raid and others say that they absolutely want 1 shadow priest in their raid group. Why the mixed reactions? From my understanding, shadow priests in classic are mainly brought to raids to buff the damage output of your warlocks with Shadow Weaving. How many warlocks would a raid need to make 1 shadow priest worth bringing over a mage for example, and am I gimping the raids DPS by taking up that raid spot?Luminé39 14 Nov
An advice for those who are trying to compete monopolizers: you cannot beat them by selling for less if they follow right steps. You should do opposite: sell for more. Because market will come down if the price goes unreasonably high. You can set a bid on item for the price it should cost and buy out price for higher than a monopolizer is selling. So, common buyer may get an item for the right price or monopolizer has to buy the item at his loss.

And for talent builds. I prefer to make my own talent builds. But I've been playing RPGs since the 8bit days so half the fun is building my own characters up. I already made and bookmarked 1 deep fire mage build, 2 elemental mage builds, and 2 deep frost mage builds. And I might remake them tomorrow if I read up on any good talent choices I left out my 1st 5 times lol. And I have multiple builds for the other classes I play too.
Nov 15 Why was it "easy" for Nost, but hard for Bliz During Blizzcon we were told how challenging (at least that's how it came off) it was for Blizzard to create a working version of Classic... but Nostalrius, with no ties to Blizzard, was able to make a relatively bug free version of Vanilla? When I say "bug free" I know there was "a lot" of issues, but nothing an entire team at Blizzard couldn't fix. Wouldn't it be less work?Goró64 Nov 15
14 Nov Guild Recruitment "JAVIDAN" This is too Early ( i know ) but we are bunch of old friends ( Retired WOW Players ) plan to come back to WOW as it was in golden age of classic. we plan to have friendly guild, aimed for enjoying events and raids and for sure PVP. so far we are : 1- Prot Tank 2- Holy Priest 3- Ferral / Resto Druid 4- Destro Warlock 5- BM Hunter 6- Pyro Mage We are Proud Horde and we miss: Resto Shaman Combat Rogue and 2 Free DPS Slot for Start; this is mandatory for starting since plan is to divide into two 5 man Groups for dungeons, Gear / lvl Up and joining initial PVP WSG and AB. We are bunch of friendly old gamers from Iran, our time zone is +3:30 GMT. we will use English as primary language in guild chat. if you like to join us on starting , please leave your name below. have a good day.Siahpoosh9 14 Nov
It is a great advantage to start making some silver and your first gold coin at low levels already. Skinning is a nice choice here. Fast and easy way to gather resources, leather of all kinds while leveling for those who are at the race to level 60. There are many good spots to grind beast mobs and skin them. I like doing it as a Troll Hunter, trolls have a passive racial ability: + 5% bonus damage against beasts.
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The original WoW was painful. Mobs took forever to die; one additional enemy in a fight was a pain, two probably meant death. There was a ton of running. Most buffs lasted two minutes, many took reagents, abilities were trained and often out of reach if you lacked the necessary gold. Warlocks had to farm shards, hunters had to carry ammo -- even my warrior did, since in vanilla WoW she can carry a bow and fire arrows herself.
14 Nov Alternative to sharding? Both Tips out and Preach have suggested in videos a solution that may ensure a good launch experience, without the use of sharding. And i think they might be on to something! I tried to look it up on the forum to vote, but dint find any, so posting this. The idea is that Blizzard at launch can release multiple servers with the intent that at later stage merge them. e.g Sargeras 1 - _ Sargeras 2 - _ > Sargeras Sargeras 3 - I can see that sharding is practical, but it removes some immersion and might even be destructive to the community! I think this sounds like a good middle road. Preachs video https://youtu.be/BpdfIBt0Zs0?t=1039Stora27 14 Nov
The Gold Queen is written by Alyzande. Working on her 14th level 110, she has 9 years expertise in making gold, 19,000+ achievements, 1593 days played, over 39 million gold earned, and now playing World of Warcraft Legion live. The Gold Queen blog teaches you how to make gold playing Warcraft using ethical trading, auction house flipping, crafting, reselling, snatch lists, and farming gold making. Want more updates on Warcraft Legion? Support my Patreon for exclusive pre-release Legion Gold Guides.

14 Nov All we wanted was Vanilla Nothing more and nothing less - And we are almost there! Now we just need to get rid the last two things: 1) Sharding 2) Loot Trading And adjust the 4 Stages to 6ish Stages. We are so close, but im beginning to see the same trend I saw back in TBC/Wrath. Back then we called them Casuals, Treehuggers and Crybabies. Later they became Wrathbabies and god knows what they are called now. They are not bad people - They just want it to be Casual/Non time-consuming ect. They asked for better gear and got Welfare Epics in TBC. They wanted to see all the content and got LFR. Slowly chipping away at the game until we have BfA today. And now they are back! They want an easy launch via. Sharding - just for a few days. Chip Chip And just in a few zones - CHIP CHIP CHIP Or maybe some dynamic respawn? CHOP CHOP CHOP And all we wanted was Vanilla.Ståål18 14 Nov
14 Nov Guild Recruitment "JAVIDAN" This is too Early ( i know ) but we are bunch of old friends ( Retired WOW Players ) plan to come back to WOW as it was in golden age of classic. we plan to have friendly guild, aimed for enjoying events and raids and for sure PVP. so far we are : 1- Prot Tank 2- Holy Priest 3- Ferral / Resto Druid 4- Destro Warlock 5- BM Hunter 6- Pyro Mage We are Proud Horde and we miss: Resto Shaman Combat Rogue and 2 Free DPS Slot for Start; this is mandatory for starting since plan is to divide into two 5 man Groups for dungeons, Gear / lvl Up and joining initial PVP WSG and AB. We are bunch of friendly old gamers from Iran, our time zone is +3:30 GMT. we will use English as primary language in guild chat. if you like to join us on starting , please leave your name below. have a good day.Siahpoosh9 14 Nov

Wait, /sit to trigger crits is p-server thing? I distinctly remember people saying that if you sit, you will be crit when I played 1.12 Vanilla. On top of that - there’s that pally that one shot Kazzak in early Vanilla because he stacked a shitload of reckoning when it didn’t have a limit - it’s not inconceivable that he did it without /sit to trigger crits, but it would take him so, SO long to do that without /sit.
Nov 15 Thank you for the demo I just want to say thank you to Blizzard for the demo. I seriously had so much fun - so much more fun than I've had trying to play wow in YEARS. I know not everything was 100% accurate to classic, but it was just a demo so that doesn't worry me too much. I still had a million times more fun playing that demo than retail in any case. THE THINGS I LOVED: (1) I died so much. Like... SO MUCH, and that's alright! Once I finally finished whatever it was I was doing, it felt really rewarding! My group and I were actually laughing when we party wiped. No one insulted anyone or pointed blame, we just had fun. (2) Things took time. The journey mattered, it wasn't just about hitting end game asap. I felt accomplished at the end of all those time consuming things I did. (3) I had fun exploring! I spent so much time just running around, not knowing what the heck to do, but that was FUN. I had FUN getting lost and finding treasure chests. (4) Seeing the classic models again! Tbh, the races all look rubbery and stupid now... I honestly think the old racial looks are nicer. (5) Reading quests was necessary again, so the story mattered to me. No one booted me from the party for "taking too long" because I wanted to read. (6) The community! There were actually people doing RP stuff and talking in character. Everyone in the chat was just having fun. (7) All of the inconveniences - running out of mana, no mounts, running slowly on foot, little or no flightpaths... These things are fun because they're not just handed to me. I had to work hard and play the game to get things. (8) People constantly buffed other players, because that small boost could be the reason you didn't die when a roaming centaur attacked you from behind. THE THINGS I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT: (1) I've heard rumors about possible sharding... PLEASE DO NOT SHARD. PLEASE. I can understand if it's temporary just for the initial launch, and only for starting zones. I think that is a decent enough compromise for the inevitable problem of overpopulation for the first few weeks. But if we're talking about full scale realm sharding, PLEASE DO NOT! Cross-realm features and sharding are what ruined communities in wow, same with dungeon finder and other such things, and these features are very unwanted for a classic player like me. (2) The elite raptor I tamed as a hunter was not stronger than the non-elite raptor I tamed at the same level. In classic, elite animals had better stats as hunter pets once tamed, compared to the same non-elite version of that animal at the same level. (3) I think the mana and health regen rates were a bit too high? I'm not certain, but if they were I honestly want them to be genuine. It's okay if it's hard - challenges make games fun! Anyway, thank you again! I had a ton of fun, and as long as classic is true to classic with all of its pros AND cons, I feel certain that it will be a success.Sarai10 Nov 15
Affliction: Endless Affliction - Your Unstable Affliction deals the same damage as normal, but its duration is increased by 6 sec. Demonology: Nether Ward - Surrounds the caster with a shield that lasts 3 sec, reflecting all harmful spells cast on you. Destruction: Demon Armor - Protects the caster, increasing maximum health by 10% and increases armor by 150%. Warrior
I recreated my very first character -- a human warrior, because in the last-push alpha test I joined in 2004, there was no Horde -- and logged in. Immediately, I was surprised by how good the graphics actually looked, for being 15 year old textures-on-polygons. Warcraft's bright colors and cartoony aesthetic continue to this day, so all the increased resolution and better-contoured characters in Lordaeron don't really change the game's visual aesthetic.
The leveling guides on my site are essentially speed leveling guides.  My leveling guides are the same guides I use myself to speedrun to 60 on new servers to get 60 server first.  I list many occasions where I tell the player to "die on purpose" to go faster.  I tell the player to skip certain quests, because some quests are just not worth the time/XP.  I list tricks and shortcuts to go faster so you can reach level 60 much quicker.  I am still constantly going through them over and over again perfecting the guides to make them faster and easier to follow.  For the most part, the guide can be followed without the need from other player's help, as the whole guide was made from a solo run anyways.  Although I do list quests that can optionally be done if you have a group.
ConsolePort: A WoW addon which natively supports Xbox and DualShock controllers. WoWMapper: Third-party software for keyboard and mouse emulation. This software is not against the ToS, because it does not automate your gameplay. Multiboxers are without any issues using ISBoxer for instance. Xbox or a DualShock controller: Alternatively, you can use a Steam controller and enable Stream streaming. Setup instructions can be found here. DualShock's touchpad acts like a mouse, which is quite nice. A long HDMI cable: In case you decide to hook up your PC to a TV. Instructions
On August 27, veterans and newcomers will be able to relive World of Warcraft’s epic origins as they assemble a 40-player raid to take on the fiery hazards of Molten Core; fight for their faction in the ongoing world PvP struggle between Southshore and Tarren Mill; muster a realm-wide war effort to open the gates of Ahn’Qiraj; and much more. Click HERE to see the content release plan!

As many of you know, leveling a Warrior in Classic is not easy - it’s almost like playing the game on hard mode. Despite having low mobility, low sustain, and the highest gear dependance in the game, Warriors are by far the most played class in Vanilla. There is a sort of masochistic appeal to leveling the hardest class in the game. To some, this epic challenge provides the purest Vanilla experience, and watching an expert pilot this class with finesse is like watching an artist at work.
And for talent builds. I prefer to make my own talent builds. But I've been playing RPGs since the 8bit days so half the fun is building my own characters up. I already made and bookmarked 1 deep fire mage build, 2 elemental mage builds, and 2 deep frost mage builds. And I might remake them tomorrow if I read up on any good talent choices I left out my 1st 5 times lol. And I have multiple builds for the other classes I play too.
Since WoW Classic server has been announced at Blizzcon 2017, there is not much info about the server revealed. It is known that the upcoming expansion Battle for Azeroth pre-order has been available at blizzard shop, and the system requirements of Mac and Windows has been unveiled Recently, Forbes has an interview with J. Allen Brack and Jeremy Feasel about the project and some of the vision that developers have.
15 Nov Progressive itemization and Stages all in one At Blizzcon they showed the 4 Content Stages : https://youtu.be/hhKkP8LryYM?t=2735 As you can see its their "Current thinking" - Meaning its not final. I think we can make it more "vanilla-like" by changing it to 6 Stages and incorporate Progressive Itemization. Lets fiddle with it! Proto-type: 1: - World of Warcraft (7th Nov. 2004 - Patch 1.1-1.1.2) MC (Launch gear) Onyxia Maraudon 2: Ruins of the Dire Maul (6th March 2005 - Patch 1.3-1.4.2) Dire Maul (World Buff and gear on par with early Raid gear) Azuregos Lord Kazak 3: Assault on Blackwing Lair (7th June 2005 - Patch 1.5-1.6.1) BWL PvP Rewards (which included epic PvP and PvE gear) Darkmoon Faire (World Buff and epic trinkets via Darkmoon Cards) Thorium Brotherhood Rep rewards 4 - Rise of the Blood God (13th Sep. 2005 - Patch 1.7-1.8.4) ZG (World Buff, Shoulder Enchants, Oils ect.) Green Dragons BG Weekends (Speeds up PvP rewards) Tier 0.5 (not sure) Upgraded MC gear 5 - The Gates of Ahn'Qiraj (3rd Jan 2006 - patch 1.9-1.10.2) AQ 20/40 Silithus content Upgraded PvP gear Upgraded and new Dungeon gear 6 - Shadow of the Necropolis (20th Jun 2006 - patch 1.11+) Naxx Scourge Invasion And the rest So, yeah - Please feel free to suggest changes. I probably missed something. Just remember that we (nor Blizzard) can get i 100% correct as it was - But we can get closer than those 4 Stages, thats for sure.Ståål19 15 Nov
 ":"  -  Any time a step ends in a ":" instead of a "." means that the next step is part of the current step you are on.  This generally means the next step should be done while working on the current step.  This means every "start working on" or "continue working on" will end in a ":".  But this is used with other occasions as well, so keep this in mind.
HOWEVER, I did find out that there was an exploit to get around it (one of those rare exploits where you would WANT a bit of lag). Basically if you spammed “X” to sit/stand/sit/stand, then if a mob hit you while you were sitting and right as you were standing up, then it would register as a crit, but on the server side you would be standing, thus allowing the ability to proc.
Even though a modern server architecture is used, Classic servers won't have the same features that current World of Warcraft does. There won't be cross-realm servers or Looking For Raid and Dungeon Finder automatic party matchmaking. There are still a lot of questions about how the team will tackle it. This endeavor is being undertaken by an entirely separate team at Blizzard from the one working on World of Warcraft and its next expansion.[2]
Mounts also take up space in your bags, bags which will of course be much smaller.  Every bag space counts.  With no guild banks, and much smaller storage space, your bank alts are going to be essential.  You’ll need to remember to always post everything back to a bank alt, and to remember to get everything from the mail box to the Auction House.  Which is only in Ironforge or Orgrimmar.
Even though a modern server architecture is used, Classic servers won't have the same features that current World of Warcraft does. There won't be cross-realm servers or Looking For Raid and Dungeon Finder automatic party matchmaking. There are still a lot of questions about how the team will tackle it. This endeavor is being undertaken by an entirely separate team at Blizzard from the one working on World of Warcraft and its next expansion.[2]
PHASED CONTENT ROLLOUT – Following its launch, World of Warcraft Classic’s content will be released over the course of multiple phases reflecting the game’s original order. Re-experience WoW history unfolding as heroes gear up for Blackwing Lair; players battle for PvP Honor and Rank rewards; and entire realms band together to open the gates of Ahn’Qiraj.
Nov 15 Spell Mechanic Questions and Hopes on Items I am not necessarily looking for any discourse that would lead to an answer, but hopefully this would gain enough traction that Blizzard might see it, and offer some insight to intended function come summer 2019. I know there is a current wall of text somewhere regarding questions on almost every item with a spell damage effect and whether or not they will be granted coefficients from character gear grand spell damage. I noticed one in particular that was left out and wanted to reiterate my personal favorites. Shard of the Fallen Star: Originally benefited in part or completely 1:1 ratio from spell damage and was capable of critting. It was nerfed in patch 2.0 which is after classic wow content. In the spirit of keeping things as they were, do you think Blizzard will keep this mechanic or change it to a post nerf state which although is not classic wow maybe seen as a balanced fix. Weapon List: Hand of Ragnaros, Netzerek the Blood Drinker, Corrupted Ashbringer, Shadowstrike - all received 2:1 coefficent originally in classic. I believe they were a little too strong but did not receive any nerf to my knowledge. Do you think these will remain as it was or be changed to satisfy the hopes for balance?Tunnelboy6 Nov 15

Nov 15 Classic was great, BC was better. IMO, BC hit the sweet spot in terms of content and gaming for WoW. It basically kept the core gameplay of Classic, but streamlined it for a better experience. Questing wasn't much different (still needed groups for hard quests), dungeons were still challenging (no LFD, heroics could be very difficult), and the raids were plentiful and required less people (25 and 10) Classes were much more balanced, specs were vastly improved (druids and paladins could finally tank and DPS as good as they could heal) In PVP, arenas are one thing I don't know if they should have ever added TBH. Some people might complain about the introduction of flying mounts, but I think it fit the expansion well. Also, Shattrath City was a great city hub! I enjoyed spending time there. Overall, I think it was the best WoW has ever been.Rhamus13 Nov 15
I made some route changes to the Horde levels 43-44 sections.  I have swapped 44 Dustwallow Marsh with 44 Desolace (the entire sections). This allowed me to do Deadmire (at lvl 43 instead of 38) and then go stop at TB to turn in Deadmire + The Black Shield at the same time, then fly quickly to do the Desolace stuff.  Doing 44 Desolace is now mandatory because I think its faster with the new routes. This will also make the level 53 grind much shorter.  I think these were great changes.
14 Nov All we wanted was Vanilla Nothing more and nothing less - And we are almost there! Now we just need to get rid the last two things: 1) Sharding 2) Loot Trading And adjust the 4 Stages to 6ish Stages. We are so close, but im beginning to see the same trend I saw back in TBC/Wrath. Back then we called them Casuals, Treehuggers and Crybabies. Later they became Wrathbabies and god knows what they are called now. They are not bad people - They just want it to be Casual/Non time-consuming ect. They asked for better gear and got Welfare Epics in TBC. They wanted to see all the content and got LFR. Slowly chipping away at the game until we have BfA today. And now they are back! They want an easy launch via. Sharding - just for a few days. Chip Chip And just in a few zones - CHIP CHIP CHIP Or maybe some dynamic respawn? CHOP CHOP CHOP And all we wanted was Vanilla.Ståål18 14 Nov
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