Now that you know to loot everything (see tip #1), you’ll have a lot of items in your bags. Any item that is white quality or greater may sell on the Auction House. How do you know what will sell well on the auction house? Trade goods and green quality (or better) items will almost always sell on the Auction House. See our Auction House guide (coming soon!) for more information.
Raiditem owns a top-class raid team who has over 10 years' experience of helping WoW gamers get all the WoW items they want. At Blizzcon 2017 Blizzard unveiled their plan on the development of WoW classic vanilla server, check out the official announcement video on YouTube for more details. As the most trustworthy site, raiditem.com will offer possibly the cheapest WOW Classic items including WoW Vanilla server gold, WoW Classic mounts, WoW legacy servers boe items, and other WoW Classic server service once the Vanilla WoW server officially releases.
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It is a great advantage to start making some silver and your first gold coin at low levels already. Skinning is a nice choice here. Fast and easy way to gather resources, leather of all kinds while leveling for those who are at the race to level 60. There are many good spots to grind beast mobs and skin them. I like doing it as a Troll Hunter, trolls have a passive racial ability: + 5% bonus damage against beasts.
Nov 15 Classic was great, BC was better. IMO, BC hit the sweet spot in terms of content and gaming for WoW. It basically kept the core gameplay of Classic, but streamlined it for a better experience. Questing wasn't much different (still needed groups for hard quests), dungeons were still challenging (no LFD, heroics could be very difficult), and the raids were plentiful and required less people (25 and 10) Classes were much more balanced, specs were vastly improved (druids and paladins could finally tank and DPS as good as they could heal) In PVP, arenas are one thing I don't know if they should have ever added TBH. Some people might complain about the introduction of flying mounts, but I think it fit the expansion well. Also, Shattrath City was a great city hub! I enjoyed spending time there. Overall, I think it was the best WoW has ever been.Rhamus13	Nov 15

HOWEVER, I did find out that there was an exploit to get around it (one of those rare exploits where you would WANT a bit of lag). Basically if you spammed “X” to sit/stand/sit/stand, then if a mob hit you while you were sitting and right as you were standing up, then it would register as a crit, but on the server side you would be standing, thus allowing the ability to proc.
There’s a whole list of websites that are trying to compile the working addons for the WoW Classic beta. The easiest one to parse through is Will It Classic. The site has a list of addons — including a search function — and has color-coded each one to signify whether or not it’s working on the beta client. Keep in mind that the client runs on the Legion API, so there are a few semi-current addons that work without any tweaking by their creators.
And for talent builds. I prefer to make my own talent builds. But I've been playing RPGs since the 8bit days so half the fun is building my own characters up. I already made and bookmarked 1 deep fire mage build, 2 elemental mage builds, and 2 deep frost mage builds. And I might remake them tomorrow if I read up on any good talent choices I left out my 1st 5 times lol. And I have multiple builds for the other classes I play too.
PHASED CONTENT ROLLOUT – Following its launch, World of Warcraft Classic’s content will be released over the course of multiple phases reflecting the game’s original order. Re-experience WoW history unfolding as heroes gear up for Blackwing Lair; players battle for PvP Honor and Rank rewards; and entire realms band together to open the gates of Ahn’Qiraj.
I am currently working full time on my Vanilla WoW leveling guides.  Soon there will be a 1-60 speed leveling guide for Alliance, along with in-game guide versions available for my members area.  As of right now, there is no members area, but if you would like to show support for my efforts into this project, you can simply donate to me via Patreon if you like (you will get some cool rewards in return).  Or you can donate directly with PayPal if you like.  All donations are highly appreciated and they will only motivate me more to continue making the best vanilla WoW leveling guides on the web.
Our old friend Quest Helper isn’t updated for the client, but there’s !Questie and MonkeyQuest to help you track available quests and their objectives. The biggest challenge to leveling up in the beta is searching for where the quest objectives are, so if you’re looking to hit the level 30 cap fast — or just the level 5 cap in today’s stress test — you’ll need one of these.

14 Nov All we wanted was Vanilla Nothing more and nothing less - And we are almost there! Now we just need to get rid the last two things: 1) Sharding 2) Loot Trading And adjust the 4 Stages to 6ish Stages. We are so close, but im beginning to see the same trend I saw back in TBC/Wrath. Back then we called them Casuals, Treehuggers and Crybabies. Later they became Wrathbabies and god knows what they are called now. They are not bad people - They just want it to be Casual/Non time-consuming ect. They asked for better gear and got Welfare Epics in TBC. They wanted to see all the content and got LFR. Slowly chipping away at the game until we have BfA today. And now they are back! They want an easy launch via. Sharding - just for a few days. Chip Chip And just in a few zones - CHIP CHIP CHIP Or maybe some dynamic respawn? CHOP CHOP CHOP And all we wanted was Vanilla.Ståål18 14 Nov


Some quests in my guide are marked as "SKIP" and colored in red.  These quests are simply either too hard to solo or not worth the XP/time and are skipped.  My guide will only list SKIPPED quests if the quest is a direct follow up after completing a quest, not one that you have to click the NPC again to get it.  If you hover over the skipped quests, it will give info on why it is skipped in the guide (unless that info is already listed directly in the guide text).
14 Nov Guild Recruitment "JAVIDAN" This is too Early ( i know ) but we are bunch of old friends ( Retired WOW Players ) plan to come back to WOW as it was in golden age of classic. we plan to have friendly guild, aimed for enjoying events and raids and for sure PVP. so far we are : 1- Prot Tank 2- Holy Priest 3- Ferral / Resto Druid 4- Destro Warlock 5- BM Hunter 6- Pyro Mage We are Proud Horde and we miss: Resto Shaman Combat Rogue and 2 Free DPS Slot for Start; this is mandatory for starting since plan is to divide into two 5 man Groups for dungeons, Gear / lvl Up and joining initial PVP WSG and AB. We are bunch of friendly old gamers from Iran, our time zone is +3:30 GMT. we will use English as primary language in guild chat. if you like to join us on starting , please leave your name below. have a good day.Siahpoosh9 14 Nov
Expected More That WoW Classic Will Resurrect That Hardcore Breed Of MMO That So Many Players Originally Fell In Love With. In World Of Warcraft Classic, It's Built Using Patch 1.12, Titled Drums Of War, Released On August 22, 2006, Equipment And Abilities Will Remain Stable In Order To Reflect The Minor Adjustment That Blizzard Made With Each Path While Dungeons, Raids, And PVP Features Will Constantly Change.
One player said in a comment posted in response to the list, “Yeah people don’t realize the sheer enormity of game system evolution WoW has gone through since release. I’m not the biggest fan of BoA by any stretch, but I’ve played since closed beta vanilla, and I doubt I’ll be going back to classic. Leveling was painful. Experiencing these old systems once was enough.”
Nov 7, 2017 Welcome - Please Read! Welcome to the Classic Discussion forum! This forum is here to provide you with a friendly environment where you can discuss all aspects of World of Warcraft: Classic with your fellow players. Community forums work best when participants treat their fellow posters with respect and courtesy, so we ask that you take the time to read through the forum Code of Conduct and guidelines before posting. Code of Conduct: http://us.battle.net/en/community/conduct Getting the Most Out of the Forums: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2016792409 Important Reminders: Search The search function at the top of the World of Warcraft community site is extremely effective and robust. Before you create a new forum topic, please be use it to search for similar topics, blog posts, or web pages that may contain the answer for which you are looking. Making a new thread on an existing subject can result in your thread being deleted or, if you continue to re-post the same content, the loss of your forum privileges for spamming. Rating The forum rating system can be used to promote positive discussion and even report posts that violate the forum Code of Conduct. By hovering over a post you'll be presented with several options, including a "thumbs up" (Like) icon. Clicking the "thumbs up" icon will rate the post up. If enough people like a post, it will gain a Highly Rated status and appear at the top of related search results. Highly Rated posts will also have a highlighted background. You can also quickly report a post as trolling or spam, or use the report function to fill out a more comprehensive description of a violation. Please note that you can only rate each post once. Use your power wisely to help foster a positive and helpful forum community.Ornyx1	Nov 7, 2017

To get Blacksmithing to level 300 is much effort. It is not that thing to make fast gold. There is always a lack of Blacksmiths though. Enchanters need rods of all kinds, melee classes look for Sharpening Stones and Weightstones with Counterweights, others buy Iron Spurs. Once you have learnt rare and epic recipes, people will always use your service to craft items.
"Challenge is part of it," Birmingham continued. "The world feels dangerous. There are difficult group quests out in the world, elite quests that you can't do by yourself, or you would have to over-level if you wanted to do them by yourself. Where they really push you to find somebody else to help you out, or out level them and come back later, or you can just leave them and go on. You don't have to complete every quest in every zone. You can choose your path through the world. So I think that is exactly the classic gameplay that people are looking for."
Making "new" guides seems kinda out of place. Not only is there still alot of information from back then available, there came alot of information up for minmaxing available for both leveling and raiding, ontop of various bis gear lists that cover patch progression aswell if necessary. Wether people like or dislike pservers does not make the various information found on their forums less valuable.
Brewmaster: Hot Trub - Purifying Brew deals 30% of your purified staggered damage to all enemies within 10 yards. Mistweaver: Way of the Crane - Increases your Physical damage by 25%, you remove and become immune to all snare and root effects and you heal up to 3 nearest allies for 150% of all damage done. Lasts 15 sec. Windwalker: Reverse Harm - Heals a friendly target for 8% of their maximum health, and causes 100% of the amount healed to instantly be dealt to the nearest enemy as Nature damage within 5 yards. Paladin 

Nov 15 Dual Boxing in Classic I was seriously thinking about being a masochist and playing a paladin in classic but then I wondered if dual boxing will still be possible in classic with the change in engines running the game. I've never dual boxed so will have to research how it works. However, it hit me that I can dual box a warrior and a priest then transfer the priest to my main account at 60 so I will have the best tank and best healer in the game to play around with. Anyone else planning on doing this and have any good resources to start learning about it?Twiinkedd6 Nov 15
Use (“V”) to show all the patients status on screen. You will have special triage bandages (add them to your action bar/hot key) which should be applied to Critically injured, then Badly injured, and then injured. Once you started treating a patient do not interupt, just finish treating that patient before moving on to another patient. You should select your next patient before your are finished with the first one, then all you have to do is hit you hot key to start the next one.
...but, in my experiences, I found dual wielding to be fine. But only if you're Fury. I found that having two weapon swings meant having twice as many chances to crit, which led to lots more Flurry procs. At level 50 with two blue 1h swords, my kill speed was just about the same as when I used an epic 2h axe. And I wasn't even specced into the offhand damage talent. If I got a good string of crits, I could smack mobs down in 15-20 seconds, and easily hit Bloodthirst every time it came off CD.
Nov 15 Dual Boxing in Classic I was seriously thinking about being a masochist and playing a paladin in classic but then I wondered if dual boxing will still be possible in classic with the change in engines running the game. I've never dual boxed so will have to research how it works. However, it hit me that I can dual box a warrior and a priest then transfer the priest to my main account at 60 so I will have the best tank and best healer in the game to play around with. Anyone else planning on doing this and have any good resources to start learning about it?Twiinkedd6 Nov 15

Nov 15 Skeletons RIP Please allow skeletons of dead players to Rest In Peace. Witnessing the aftermath of a city / town raid and seeing a blanket of bones that told a story of how the battle went down, really helped add to the MMORPG feel. I did not play the “demo” but reports say that skeletons disappear fairly quick. #nochangesMakinb17CEDC26 Nov 15
The first—and among the most important—decision we had to make was which version of the game to focus on. As many of you have noted, the classic period was two years long and full of changes. Core features like Battlegrounds were introduced in patches after WoW’s original launch, and class design similarly changed over time. After careful consideration, we decided on Patch 1.12: Drums of War as our foundation, because it represents the most complete version of the classic experience.

One player said in a comment posted in response to the list, “Yeah people don’t realize the sheer enormity of game system evolution WoW has gone through since release. I’m not the biggest fan of BoA by any stretch, but I’ve played since closed beta vanilla, and I doubt I’ll be going back to classic. Leveling was painful. Experiencing these old systems once was enough.”
It is a great advantage to start making some silver and your first gold coin at low levels already. Skinning is a nice choice here. Fast and easy way to gather resources, leather of all kinds while leveling for those who are at the race to level 60. There are many good spots to grind beast mobs and skin them. I like doing it as a Troll Hunter, trolls have a passive racial ability: + 5% bonus damage against beasts.
PHASED CONTENT ROLLOUT – Following its launch, World of Warcraft Classic’s content will be released over the course of multiple phases reflecting the game’s original order. Re-experience WoW history unfolding as heroes gear up for Blackwing Lair; players battle for PvP Honor and Rank rewards; and entire realms band together to open the gates of Ahn’Qiraj.
Nov 15 Managing your time and Classic So how are you guys thinking you're going to do it? I know when I played Vannila, I sunk so much time into it as I didn't have any responsibilites. Nowadays I work 24 on, 48 off (which is actually good, except for raid days) and have a wife. I figure a lot of you will be in the same boat. That may be a good thing as it can slow the pace a bit.Crupzz4 Nov 15
You create a meta where you're constantly buying gold. Gold is very important in vanilla consumables are the difference between being a hardcore raider and being a casual. The notion that wow token doesn't create inflation is incorrect. By giving every player the ability to buy gold you're increasing how much gold your average player will have. the 1% rich player who has the ingame gold to buy these tokens was not trading with that gold. But now they buy ingame time and the gold that was sitting in their pocket is now being used to trade, buy items, herbs, etc. now there's more gold in circulation. Now everything costs a little bit more gold. And if you're a player who's not buying wow tokens with real life money you have to farm just a little bit longer to compete. That's why wow token is bad.
You will see a resurgence of power leveling services, item trade services, and gold farming. Classic will have a fresh economy meaning for your average gold farmer time spent in classic is way more efficient. It will probably be worse than it was back in the day. Just look at the blizzard group finder on retail, littered with advertisements for m+ boosting websites. Disgusting. There will be so many gold farmers blizz probably won't be able to keep up. And this is what I truly fear because if the gold farmers start to win activision will step in and introduce wow token. And classic will die.
Notez que lors de la sortie du jeu, le mardi 27 août 2019, tout le contenu ne sera pas disponible immédiatement. Celui-ci sera déployé en 6 phases. En effet, les développeurs souhaitent attendre et voir comment la communauté s'approprie le jeu. Blizzard partagera le calendrier lorsque que les développeurs auront une idée plus claire de la façon dont les joueurs profitent du contenu. Nous vous proposons un calendrier qui sera mis à jour dès que les informations seront disponibles.
14 Nov Will I gimp my raid by playing Shadow Priest? I have a burning passion for shadow priest in vanilla and I mostly want to raid. I've been talking to some people I know and some of them say that they would never bring a shadow priest into raid and others say that they absolutely want 1 shadow priest in their raid group. Why the mixed reactions? From my understanding, shadow priests in classic are mainly brought to raids to buff the damage output of your warlocks with Shadow Weaving. How many warlocks would a raid need to make 1 shadow priest worth bringing over a mage for example, and am I gimping the raids DPS by taking up that raid spot?Luminé39	14 Nov

Nov 13 WoW Classic BlizzCon Demo Pre-Download Hi everyone! We’re incredibly excited for you all to get your hands on the WoW Classic BlizzCon demo next week, and to help make things as smooth as possible, we’re making the client available to download for Virtual Ticket holders starting today. Over the next 24 hours, we’ll be enabling the ability to download the WoW Classic demo through the Battle.net app for players who have purchased the BlizzCon Virtual Ticket, as well as standard BlizzCon ticket holders who have added their Virtual Goodies code to their Battle.net account. If you don’t see the option to install the demo right away, don’t worry – you’ll still have plenty of time to download the client before the demo goes live during BlizzCon next week. We can’t wait for you to get a peek at what we’ve been working on, and hope you enjoy this preview of what’s to come!Ythisens156 Nov 13
I made some route changes to the Horde levels 43-44 sections.  I have swapped 44 Dustwallow Marsh with 44 Desolace (the entire sections). This allowed me to do Deadmire (at lvl 43 instead of 38) and then go stop at TB to turn in Deadmire + The Black Shield at the same time, then fly quickly to do the Desolace stuff.  Doing 44 Desolace is now mandatory because I think its faster with the new routes. This will also make the level 53 grind much shorter.  I think these were great changes.
Nov 15 Classic is too easy for 2019 playerbase I'm not big on gameplay changes, really I'm not but... The game is just too easy for today's standards. I really think some of these raids and instances need a serious increase in difficulty. MC is a joke, most of the tier sets are unbalanced, and a lot of seasoned players agree but fear the toxic Classic community to speak up on this issue.Hopera237 Nov 15
Earning gold in World of Warcraft: Classic is all about optimizing your spendings. Back in the day, your character’s skills were acquired from a trainer, using money. Don’t just buy everything he or she offers! Read the skill descriptions and be mindful about them. Quite a few characters can live through the levelling process without learning some of their utility or damage spells. These won’t go anywhere and you’ll be able to learn them later on.
Elemental: Lightning Lasso - Grips the target in lightning, stunning the target and dealing O2% of the target's maximum health in Nature damage over 5 sec. Can move while channeling. Enhancement: Ride the Lightning - If there are more than 2 enemies within 8 yards when you cast Stormstrike, you also cast a Chain Lightning on the target, dealing [ 50% of Spell Power ] Nature damage. Otherwise, you conjure bolts of lightning to up to 2 furthest enemies within 40 yards dealing [ 50% of Spell Power ] Nature damage. Restoration: Ancestral Gift - You become immune to Silence and Interrupt effects for 5 sec after using Spiritwalker's Grace. Warlock
I am currently working full time on my Vanilla WoW leveling guides.  Soon there will be a 1-60 speed leveling guide for Alliance, along with in-game guide versions available for my members area.  As of right now, there is no members area, but if you would like to show support for my efforts into this project, you can simply donate to me via Patreon if you like (you will get some cool rewards in return).  Or you can donate directly with PayPal if you like.  All donations are highly appreciated and they will only motivate me more to continue making the best vanilla WoW leveling guides on the web.
Most profitable professions are considered to be Herbalism and Enchanting in pair. You can have Enchanting only for Disenchanting skill, it will bring decent gold. Consider the fact of disenchanting all soulbound armor, not just selling them to a vendor, but I do not recommend to disenchant any kind of weapons, it is more profitable to sell it to a merchant if it is a soulbound item, or sell it on auction house if it is BoE (bind on equip).
Notez cependant, que les développeurs ont précisé que le nombre de personnes qui rejoindront la bêta fermée sera beaucoup moins important que pour une bêta ordinaire. Il ne s'agit pas ici d'équilibrer le jeu, mais de corriger des bugs et des problèmes qui pourraient apparaître. Afin d'y avoir une chance de participer, vous devez vous inscrire via le site www.wowclassic.com.
Now that you know to loot everything (see tip #1), you’ll have a lot of items in your bags. Any item that is white quality or greater may sell on the Auction House. How do you know what will sell well on the auction house? Trade goods and green quality (or better) items will almost always sell on the Auction House. See our Auction House guide (coming soon!) for more information.
15 Nov Regeneration on classic demo Hey I haven't seen any discussion about this yet, but wasn't the regeneration on the demo a bit much? From watching streams and videos from different content creators it seem they were regenerating health and mana way faster than I remember and definitely faster compared to vanilla servers. What's your opinions on this, oh wise forum debaters?Eaqe2F22511 15 Nov
Wait, /sit to trigger crits is p-server thing? I distinctly remember people saying that if you sit, you will be crit when I played 1.12 Vanilla. On top of that - there’s that pally that one shot Kazzak in early Vanilla because he stacked a shitload of reckoning when it didn’t have a limit - it’s not inconceivable that he did it without /sit to trigger crits, but it would take him so, SO long to do that without /sit.

15 Nov question about hunter So i saw this leveling guide for hunter in classic and it seems like u need some kind of addon to track ur auto shot. So my question is how did auto shot work back then? did u have to stand still to be able to shoot auto shots? and did like using arcane shot reset the timer of auto shot wich means if u are 1 sec from an auto shot but uses arcane instead u get new 3 sec (or whatever the wep speed is) before an auto shot is fired? thanksCirluica29 15 Nov


HOWEVER, I did find out that there was an exploit to get around it (one of those rare exploits where you would WANT a bit of lag). Basically if you spammed “X” to sit/stand/sit/stand, then if a mob hit you while you were sitting and right as you were standing up, then it would register as a crit, but on the server side you would be standing, thus allowing the ability to proc.
To get Blacksmithing to level 300 is much effort. It is not that thing to make fast gold. There is always a lack of Blacksmiths though. Enchanters need rods of all kinds, melee classes look for Sharpening Stones and Weightstones with Counterweights, others buy Iron Spurs. Once you have learnt rare and epic recipes, people will always use your service to craft items.
On August 27, veterans and newcomers will be able to relive World of Warcraft’s epic origins as they assemble a 40-player raid to take on the fiery hazards of Molten Core; fight for their faction in the ongoing world PvP struggle between Southshore and Tarren Mill; muster a realm-wide war effort to open the gates of Ahn’Qiraj; and much more. Click HERE to see the content release plan!
Recently the new essence received from PvP which gives you access to an extra PvP talent, that also works in PvE situations, has made waves and there are plenty of threads about it on the forums. One in particular got a blue response which clarified just how powerful and how relevant the essence is supposed to be for PvE-focused players. Each spec gets a specific PvP talent added and some of them currently selected on the PTR are a little too powerful and feel mandatory for PvE, such as Moonkin Aura for Boomkins and Leader of the Pack for Feral Druids, but Blizzard clarified it is not their intention to have must-have talents for PvE available through the essence, as its primary goal is to add additional choice for PvP players.

Now that you know to loot everything (see tip #1), you’ll have a lot of items in your bags. Any item that is white quality or greater may sell on the Auction House. How do you know what will sell well on the auction house? Trade goods and green quality (or better) items will almost always sell on the Auction House. See our Auction House guide (coming soon!) for more information.


Nov 15 5 reasons I'm doubtful of WoW Classic I played WoW from patch 1.4 until Sunwell. And I'm not convinced on Classic. 1. I understand nostalgia for the gameplay, and it was a great game, by I don't get why people would want the old graphics when it looked outdated back then. Someone will level a warrior or rogue at snail pace and those 2004 boring graphics will reinforce his perception that the game is bad because it looks bad. 2. The lack of a second talent tree. This was the most demanded feature and I don't see people sticking with the game without it. 3. This has always been in the game, but weekly resets, I never got it, let people able to reset raids. Maybe have a 2 hours cooldown, but if a guild wants to farm a raid every night, or twice on a sunday, or farm the first 3 bosses of MC, let them. Gearing 40-60 people with weekly resets, in this day and age, good luck. 4. Dungeon finder, not sure people will like that, again bad decision. 5. The graphics, no seriously, this is bad on every level of game design, it just make the game look worse, a straight negative with no benefit.Pekuakami24 Nov 15

Kaivax, a WoW forum community manager, revealed that WoW Classic's class design, battleground mechanics and stats on existing items will be set to their 1.12 state, despite the game releasing content that expands beyond that. This removes "progressive itemization," so if the stats on a specific piece of equipment was changed during the original updates, that won't take effect in this version.


Most profitable professions are considered to be Herbalism and Enchanting in pair. You can have Enchanting only for Disenchanting skill, it will bring decent gold. Consider the fact of disenchanting all soulbound armor, not just selling them to a vendor, but I do not recommend to disenchant any kind of weapons, it is more profitable to sell it to a merchant if it is a soulbound item, or sell it on auction house if it is BoE (bind on equip).

14 Nov Refund? Lawfully speaking, if Blizzard decides to back down on their promise of removing sharding after the population has stabilized, could you request a full refund? I mean false advertising is against the law, isn't it? I'm asking because I can tolerate sharding for the first few weeks because I can just not play during that time, but I have this nagging feeling that Blizzard isn't planning on removing it completely and will still continue to use sharding when the stress on the servers becomes too much, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone on this matter.Spiike35 14 Nov
11 Nov WoW Classic Demo Extended! It’s been awesome seeing all the excitement building around WoW Classic and the play-at-home demo we released as part of the BlizzCon Virtual Ticket. So awesome, in fact, that we’d like to keep the party going for a few more days! We’ve extended the duration of the WoW Classic Demo to last through the weekend, ending at 19:00 CET on Monday, November 12. That should give you plenty of time to track down those remaining Zhevra Hooves, or finish cooking up some Westfall Stew. We hope you’re enjoying the WoW Classic Demo and can’t wait to share the full game with you next summer!Taepsilum16 11 Nov
14 Nov Classic was hard for casuals I think with all this comparing between difficulty in retail and classic going on, we should just say how it is/ was. Classic was hard for the casuals , while retail is difficult for the hardcore player. With this one sentence we can give both games the credit they deserve , without always having to do low blows against one game.Kappador63 14 Nov
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